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Saturday, October 25, 2014

L.A. Times editorial raises questions about Echo Park gang injunction

Anti-gang injunction banner was displayed during this weekend’s Echo Park Rising music festival/Nathan Solis

The Sunday editorial in the L.A. Times did not flat out oppose a gang injunction proposed for the Echo Park area but it came pretty close.  The editorial raised many questions about the need to use such a legal “sledgehammer” to deal with gang crime:

The situation in Echo Park falls well short of the sort of crime emergencies that led Los Angeles, and then other cities, down the path of gang injunctions 30 years ago. Then, there was at least the perception among city lawyers and police that entire neighborhoods had become hostages to gangs and that there was little else they could do about it. But court pleadings in favor of the new injunction fail to specify any particular crimes or to include figures that show Echo Park has more of a gang problem than other neighborhoods in or outside an injunction zone. Nor do they make an argument for why the situation could not be handled by traditional crime-fighting methods or show that the benefits of an injunction would outweigh the negative consequences for so much of the community.

The injunction would apply to more than 300 members of six rival gangs  in an approximately four-square-mile area that includes Echo Park, Elysian Valley and portions of Silver Lake.  The injunction would prohibit members of active gangs from associating in public and impose heavier penalties for gang-related crimes committed in the neighborhood.

The proposed injunction is scheduled to be reviewed this week during an August 21 court hearing.

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168 comments

  1. Uh, maybe you could drive up EP avenue RIGHT NOW and see the CYS tags across multiple garage doors that were then covered up by EXP over the last few nights …

    I guess we must be imagining this, there is no gang turf war going on in echo park…

    • Echo Park resident

      No, that’s just artwork done by local youth! It’s the same as the murals hipsters paint on the side of businesses. You’re being racist! Those aren’t gang tags, those are just markers to delineate territory!*

      *Trying to think of all the things procopio would say before he gets a chance

    • you left out LCM!!

    • 80% of the “artwork” that I have to contact graffiti control for is the artsy(?), cartoony, hipster(?) crap that dominates the biggest walls (canvases?) throughout N.E.L.A. Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to catch them in the act but I haven’t quit trying. If the gang members don’t catch them first.

      • Probably because what you describe as “cartoony hipster crap” is actually commissioned by the business owners and they have a name— “murals”. Don’t compare art to tagging. Go to jail.

      • The “cartoony hipster crap” you speak of is just a little bit different than gang tagging. I will educate you, Joaquin, since you are ignorant in the subject. All of the colorful hipster crap you see in NELA are commissioned by business owners. They want a nice, bright, cool looking painting on the side of their buildings to draw attention to their business. These giant works of art have long been part of Los Angeles, and they are called “murals”. Now, gang tagging on the other hand, are NOT done with permission. Gang tags appear on private property and public property without anyone’s consent or permission. Furthermore, while people can stand and look at the murals, they can criticize the art or love the art; however, there is no debate about gang tagging. Gang taggings are more like animals urinating on things to mark territory. It is meant to intimidate and serve a far different purpose than the cartoony hipster crap. I hope I gave you a little education on the subject so you will no longer attempt to compare commissioned artwork with unapproved, terroristic graffiti threats. It seems to me is you have more of a problem with hipsters than anything else.

        • Excuse me hipster-dufus. You can hardly educate the likes of Me on LA’s mural tradition, which preceded everything you’re describing by decades. Moreover, the cartoony-crap being scrawled on walls along Glendale Blvd. and thereabouts is not gang-related and the self-indulgent “commissioned art” you speak of does NOT reflect the taste or demographics of the surrounding community, i.e., eyesore. Please try and not embarass yourself with your pseudo-scholarly descriptions of an urban L.A. tradition that was originaed by the active and former “terrorists” of East L.A. long before you ever dared travel east of Western or south of the 134.

      • Joaquin, can you list some of the addresses/business where we can find the offensive “tagging” you’re talking about? I think lots of us would want to see if the artwork was worth calling graffiti removal for.

        • Glendale Blvd. immediately south of the 2 is a mess of non gang-related tagging and stenciled messages that remain for weeks if not longer. You’ll also see these scrawls appearing along residential streets and private residences throughout NELA. Some of you are either legally blind or selective about what you find ugly or threatening. I’m personally offended by the lack of talent or substance represented by these scrawls and commissioned “art”.

          • You are entitled to not enjoy art. That is the beauty in art. But, it is LEGAL art. Speaking of which, why do you gang members have such poor handwriting? Your taggings seriously look like chicken scratch. Maybe if you gang bangers could actually write or tag something worthwhile, this injunction would have never came about. But once you go around scribbling on your neighbor’s garage door like some 3 year old who just discovered a crayon for the first time, I am sure you can see how tagging is in a league of its own in offensiveness.

          • Echo Park resident

            I actually live right in this area, and the only “graffiti” I saw on my walk last night were nicely done murals. (ie: The giant face of the man on the side of a building on Glendale near Mono Records.) Hardly as offensive as the scribbled curse words (“F**k CYS” was the last thing put on my house’s fence) taggers love throwing up.

          • There are many different youth subcultures that are putting up street art…including tags, stickers and wheatpsted posters. learn to read the writing on the walls before you blame it all on supposed “gangs”

    • Please inform yourselves about gang injunctions. what they are, how they’ve functioned and not functioned before you so quickly sign up to throw young people in jail. I am a Silverlake resident of nine years and a former high school teacher at Marshall High School. I have not heard a single argument that could legitimize the need for a gang injunction now. Crime in the area is at a twenty year low. Tagging doesnot justify the extreme measures that a gang injunction puts into place. Many innocent youth are unjustly placed on the gang database. The injunction including court costs and incarcernation for petty, non-violent crimes(ie. being out past curfew) is extremely costly and not necessarily effective. For a fraction of the cost, programs that support prevention are more effective. I am extremely offended by the masked racism in comments Please don’t defer to decades of bad media coverage that has dehumanized and criminalized Latino youth and families. Your understanding of “gangs” sounds like it is more informed by bad Hollywood films. Get to know what you don’t know. NO TO GANG INJUNCTIONS. YES TO PREVENTION and SERVICES FOR YOUTH.

    • WOW, Tuesday council meeting was a Historic day Echo Park, Frogtown, and Crazy’s came together to call it a truce a day after the righting up EP Ave. This is how neighborhoods do it come together as one.

  2. Why should any neighborhood have to tolerate even a little bit of gang activity?

    Every citizen, of every background, deserves to live in a safe, orderly neighborhood free from intimidation.

    That crime used to be worse thirty years ago has literally zero relevance to the question of whether to use a gang injunction today.

  3. Great to know that the LA Times supports gangs. Sorry, we have a new mayor and a new councilman who are not going to put with this 3rd world behavior anymore. Gangs and street swap meeters— get out of Echo Park before you get put down by Garcetti. Let’s Go Eric!

    • Learn your “first-world” history. Urban gangs are a conspicuous feature of American culture and history going all the way back to the 1840s, e.g., “Gangs of New York”. Also, gangs don’t emerge in a vacuum and the prejudiced and discriminatory attitudes of individuals like yourself is a primary contributing factor. Btw, you conveniently ignore a prominent fact of this issue: as the “3rd World” population of this city has increased (45%-50%), so has community safety. STOP trying to take credit for the progress our community has achieved in spite of bigots like yourself. Your “1st World”(?) behavior only contaminates the peace and safety that does exist in our community. Perhaps it’s time for you to take flight. After all, Tujunga, La Crescenta, and La “Canyada” are just a 10-minute drive up the 2 . . . Adios!

      • procipio changed his moniker to joaquin…

      • Thank you for your gang history Joaquin. Now let me fill you in on something: we are discussing the present and the future. This is Echo Park in 2013. This is Los Angeles in 2013. Gangs are just what you describe– history. The criminal elements will be wiped out of Los Angeles forever. Gang members and the people who enable the gangs (like you) will be locked up in jail, and the rest of us will live in peace and prosperity.

      • Joaquin, if you’re insinuating that Tujunga, La Crescenta and “La Canyada” are less diverse than Echo Park, or that folks in those neighborhoods are more prejudiced or discriminatory, you haven’t driven up the 2 Freeway in a while. While La Canada is still largely white and upper-income, Tujunga has a very large Latino population, and La Crescenta has a large population of Koreans and Armenians, as well as whites. I currently live in La Crescenta, and one neighbor is Korean, my other neighbor is Latina, and the man who owns the house directly across the street is Armenian (from Iran). I do acknowledge that La Crescenta is a bit different; while Echo Park has a handful of guys who go by the nickname “Oso,” we have actual “osos” who come down from the Verdugos and San Gabriels to pay us visits. (Not to mention cougars …)

        • I speak from personal experience not prejudice. I have friends in North L.A. In fact, I enjoyed a burger at Everest in La Crescenta a couple of weeks ago. That area’s dry and sleepy environment reminds me of NELA in the 70s. We used to refer to Tujunga as “Hazard County”. Yeah, it’s diversified in the last decade and become safer and cleaner as a result. Just like Echo Park but that area is suburban and semi-rural compared to urban L.A. It’s also where many Angelenos transplanted when urban NELA was no longer clean or safe enough for them. I submit that it remains a suitable refuge for this generation of finicky NELA residents who feel he same. Simply turn in your “Angeleno” credentials and fly north.

  4. If a portion of your house was on fire albeit small, would you not still want to put it out? Of course you would. Logically you know that fires spread and get bigger and bigger. There is no such thing as containing the fire in your home. It’s either extinguished, or it spreads.

    That we have ONE gang member in this neighborhood is too much.

  5. In addition to gang injunctions, the homeowners in the neighborhood should file a civil suit against gangs for reduction in property values, plus some kind of “pain and suffering” compensation for having to live through the negative effects the gangs inflict on local communities.

    • So telling, caring only for your property values! Wow.

    • you should care about your property values, too!
      A home purchase is likely the most expensive purchase of your lifetime. You work hard for it, so you should protect it.
      However, the reasoning behind my comment to sue the pants off gang members, is not really about property. It’s about finding another tool, perhaps a more palatable one than a gang injunction, to punish and perhaps force behavior change or departure of gang members in a community.

      • Property values in Echo Park have down in recent years? Really? You’re serious right now? Ha.

      • Well True Freedom , considering i GREW UP HERE , am NOT a gang banger , bought my house for only $80,000 on Cerro Gordo ,yearrrrs before you only moved here because it was “hip” ,and have a $700 dollar mortgage i’m not THAT concerned about my property value.
        Im happy about the quality of life and the parks and all the amazing memories Echo Park has given me MY ENTIRE LIFE .
        I have always been active in the neighborhood , hate gangs too, and have made those phone calls to the necessary folks when ive needed to . Now, there are just more of us .
        Since i’m not a flipper , i’m happy enjoying this magical spot since 1967.
        Cheers.

        • I’m very glad for you. It sounds to me like you care alot about yourself and not your neighbors.. esp those who bought in sometime after the beginning of your universe (ie the date you moved in).
          For the record, I’m not a flipper, never bought a property because it’s hip, and actually don’t even live in El P. So much for assumptions.

          • Lets see, like assuming I don’t care about my neighbors ? You have no idea what you are talking about.I’ve lived a happylife here, that’s all that matters . Cheers!

    • @ True Freedom, you don’t even live in Echo Park. Why don’t you stop being such a busy body and mind your own business in Pasadena?

  6. If hipster are consider part of the gang injunction then I’m cool with it.

  7. I think the LA Times got it right. NOBODY is defending gangs, here. NOBODY is defending criminality. The problem with the injunction is that it is an indefinite intrusion into the civil liberties of black and (in the case of Echo Park mostly) brown men. And this intrusion occurs not because they have personally done anything wrong, or anything actually criminal. This PERMANENT intrusion into their lives will occur for no other reason than they are poor, brown boys who grow up with other poor, brown boys and are friends with them, and some of these other poor brown boys maybe involved in gangs. That alone will subject them to a gang injunction — that is what it means to be a “gang affiliated.” They are friends, with other boys who may be associated with gangs. Maybe its their cousin; maybe its their brother; maybe its their father. That is why civil libertarians will up and arms against gang injunctions when they were first used in 1980’s and 90’s — at the height of the gang warfare in Los Angeles. But given the proliferation of gangs THEN the court’s somehow found a justification. I doubt, seriously, that any court will find that those circumstances that justified an injunction back then are present in the cleaned-up, overly-gentrified Echo Park of today. If those circumstances existed, they existed twenty years ago. They don’t exist now. Also SHAME on the ACLU for not stepping up now to defend the brown boys of Echo Park today. SHAME ON THEM.

    • you are so very wrong. this doesn’t apply to any brown or black boy. this applies to a very specific list of 300 known gang members. that is it. just as felons forfeit their rights to vote by committing crimes, these known gang members have for whatever circumstances affiliated with gangs that simply breed violence, hate, and intimidation. shame on those who misrepresent what a gang injunction actually is. no one is up in arms because this applies ONLY to gang members who no respectable citizen wants in the community. criminals are not welcome anymore in echo park.

      • You are the one who is misrepresenting what this means. Everybody has a first amendment right to affiliate with whomever they want. You can be a “known” gang member because you affiliate with people who are gang members and who may — or may not — have committed felonies. You, personally, do not need to be a “felon” to be a known gang member. Gang membership is an affiliation, not a felony. A known gang member may have been involved in garffiti, but that, also is not a felony. And, while I don’t condone that kind of behavior (and actually, am really annoyed with the expense and trouble it takes it clean it off my fast-appreciating property), I don’t think engaging in graffiti is sufficient justification for a PERMANENT INJUNCTION on a dumb young man’s life.

        Let me be clear, I am not a bleeding heart. But I am a civil libertarian and it annoys me to no end that people think its fine for the government to permanently keep a young man from possibly ever communicating or associating with other people in their families because they may have gotten an ill-advised tattoo at 16 — and THAT (an ill advised tattoo) will suffice to get some of these boys branded as “known gang members” in echo park. Ill advised tattoos are all the rage in Echo Park, but I doubt most of the hispters will be covered by these injunction. It will only apply to those of poor, brown boys. I guarantee you that. Also, there is nothing in the injunction that limits it to only “felons” — it is “known gang members” which is very, very different.

        Lastly, felons in California do NOT forfeit the right to vote. You are talking about states in the deep South. Thank god we are not one of those states — yet.

        • But don’t you think breaking apart these ties and associations is a good way to break apart the gangs themselves? If I was a low-ranking gang member who had already had a couple run-ins with the law, and didn’t like what I saw, I could use the injunction as an excuse to quietly back out of the gang and get my shit together.

          • I am all for finding ways of severing gang ties and getting these kids to some productive endeavor. You know the best way of doing that? Get him a job, maybe a wife, and desire to have a stable life. But, for starters, definitely get him a job as a first step. But, an injunction? I don’t think so. It will only breed his contempt for the “man”. If he is given an opportunity by some one, somehwere maybe he will get over his juvenile contempt for the “man”, but an injunction (which will have no effect on actual criminality and just be an imposition on his life and his ability to get a job) will only serve to further entrench his hatred of the man, the system, our society.

            Are these some of these kids dumb? Yes. Are some of these kids felons? Yes, and those who ARE felons are dealt with forcefully by the LAPD. But the gang injunction only really affects kids who are NOT felons and who can’t be dealt with effectively by existing criminal laws. Essentially, we are criminalizing the fact that they were born poor into a poor neighborhood and are surrounded by acquaintances, families and neighbors who may be unsavory. It doesn’t mean this kid is himself a bad kid, just that he has not found his way yet. Let’s be clear, because it is worth repeating, if these kids were actual FELONS and LAPD had a way of documenting their felonious ways, they would be dealt with by existing laws. What we are talking about here are kids whose only “crime” (in quotes because ordinarily, this is not a crime) is that they associate with gang members. They have a tattoo because their older brother or cousin, or dad did. They are kids who are NOT felons.

            I am all for finding ways of getting rid of gangs. This seems to me as a really, bad idea.

          • @Cristi : you say, “get him a job”.
            Sounds great in theory, but are you going to hire him? Employees cost employers money. Where’s that money (for salary, insurance, ss tax, etc) going to come from?

            If we are going to take that money from the taxpayers, shouldn’t we prioritize giving away jobs to law abiding citizens first? I mean, if we have unemployed law abiders, shouldn’t they get first dibs? Otherwise, you’re penalizing law abiders in favor of law breakers. That doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

          • Cristi, are you recommending that a young woman consider marrying a gang member in the hopes that she can lead him away from the gang life? If you had a daughter, would you recommend that she engage in that kind of wishful thinking? Secondly, nobody can “get (a gang member) a job;” life doesn’t work that way. When someone wants a job, they go out and search for one themselves. I don’t mean to be condescending, but I’m wondering how old you are; I think your post would make more sense to readers if you were in your early twenties.

          • James, what I am recommending is that we engage in some smarter way of preventing gang affiliation and violence. The best gang prevention program (nationally) is widely recognized to be the one run by Homeboy Industries led by Father Greg Boyle in Boyle Heights. Anybody who has been in LA for more than a nano-second, and actually cares about these issues, would have easily and readily recognized that I was was merely liberally quoting Father Greg Boyle. I am not giving away some secret recipe for what works in gang prevention. This is Father Greg Boyle’s mantra: “Nothing stops a bullet like a job.” That’s his thing, give a kid a job and he will stop banging. If you were not absolutely “new by” to this issue of inner city crime, and how to alleviate it, you would have actually known what I was talking about.

            And, no, of course not. I am not saying anybody should forced to marry anybody else. But it is widely known that once kids get jobs, their life prospects change; they become more marriagable as well. And when they become marriagable, they become family-oriented and less prone to criminality. This is not rocket-science. I’m not saying government should arrange marriages. (That is a silly and stupid interpretation of what i wrote.) All I am saying is we spend more on programs like Homebody Industries and other job training programs and less on “gang injunctions.”

          • Cristi, while I haven’t yet read “Tattoos on the Heart,” I’m familiar with Father Greg Boyle – I briefly met him in 2003 at an event, and I’ve read and heard several interviews with him. I still don’t know how old you are, but based on your comments, I suspect that you’re in your early 20s, just out of college (liberal-arts degree) and still “under the influence” of your former professors who exhort non-minority students to constantly “challenge your privilege” – and who often see class bias, racism, sexism, and all the other “isms” where they may not exist. Again, there’s nothing wrong with any of your opinions, but please realize that some of us on this blog had similar views to yours in our twenties but have had life experiences that changed our views – and that does not make us racists – or fascists.

            Regarding Father Greg Boyle, I respect him but I also believe that giving a gang member a job usually doesn’t pull him out of the lifestyle. Most gangsters get started at the age of 12 or 13, long before they can be handed one of those jobs-that-grow-on-trees of which you speak so fondly. There are all sorts of social programs that could impact gang membership, but gangs also need to fear law-abiding residents, or barring that, law enforcement. (As I stated before, we need the stick, not just the carrot.)

            Incidentally, the name of Father Boyle’s organization is “Homeboy Industries,” though I like the term “Homebody” a lot better. (If more gang members were homebodies, there would be little need for an injunction.)

          • James makes some great points. While I am all for having more job opportunities for Echo Park and LA in general (who isn’t?) It’s simplistic to think that a job will always negate gang activities. That EXP gang leader that was killed a few years ago had a full time job as a carpet installer. Many gang member get jobs and continue gang involvement ‘on the side’ for a variety of reasons including money/respect and the fact that they just don’t believe there’s anything wrong with it. I am all for having more carrots, but the fact is some gang members only react to the stick. And the injunction and will give police the tools to keep more gang members in line through fear who would not otherwise, and will put take the ones who refuse to be law abiding off of our streets.

            Cristi, I also share your concerns about stigmatizing kids and teens and ‘pushing’ them into a gang inadvertently, but read everything that CA Feuer and Mitch O’Farrell have said about using the injunction wisely, working with communities, giving people a way pout and a way to prove they are no longer involved. Also, with the injunction the LAPD does work with a gang intervention and job readiness non profit called Aztec Rising (this was on NPR last week) that helps address a lot of the concerns you have. http://www.aztecsrising.org

          • Hi,
            Long time EP resident here. First off I got some of the at risk youth here jobs and they have done great. Also there wasn’t even a gang task force for the Northeast div. until a couple of years ago it had been dismantled for a few years due to low gang activity.
            Some people here are so worried about their property values they forget that there are real people’s lives at stake here. Kids, actually.
            Become a part of your neighborhood, and not just the white part of it, and ou may find out that Hey! We are really all the same here and need to be kind to each other.
            If you are mad at the kids in the gangs, remember, they are just kids and you can be a friend and a good example as a successful home owning adult.
            I have seen so many of these kids leave the gangs and lead productive lives when the neighborhood people band together to be positive instead of negative.

        • actually in california voting rights for felons aren’t reestablished until after parole.

          A more apt comparison to the injunction might be Sex Offender restrictions or simple restraining orders. Sex offenders do not have the right to affiliate with children at schools, how do libertarians square that? Past infractions (whether felonious or not) certainly give the state/city the right to restrict where and with who KNOWN GANG MEMBERS congregate. you should take up your beef with the supreme court, who ruled this constitutional, not members of the echo park community who want their family to grow up in a safe environment.

          studies on gang injunctions in LA have objectively proven drops in gang related crime to the order of 10%. history proves they are affective. so you are wrong there as well.

          you recommend engaging in smart activities to reduce gang activity. an injunction does not impact any of these programs, so go for it.

          if you think this is a racial issue you are kidding yourself. it’s a public safety issue.

        • Cristi:

          “A known gang member may have been involved in garffiti, but that, also is not a felony.”

          Graffiti is considered a type of vandalism, and if the damage is over $400, it can be treated as a felony, depending on circumstances (like a prior record).

  8. http://www.theeastsiderla.com/2013/08/silver-lake-shooting-at-recreation-center-leaves-one-man-injured/

    1 gang shooting is an unacceptable amount of gang shootings.

    Gangs are not a protected class like gender, race, or ability.

    These are criminal organizations and no one has the right to prey on their neighbors

    • If you take a look at the proposed injunction, it looks like the Silver Lake Rec center falls just outside the boundaries they set.

      • Echo Park resident

        I think the Virgil Village crowd is hoping the injunction passes so that they can lobby for one in their neighborhoods.

        • I thought someone reported that Virgil Village already has an injunction — and it doesn’t seem to have had much effect.

          • Yes I am afraid we are losing here in Virgil Village. The LML MS13 multinational terrorist organization has been ramping up– tagging like I have never seen. I have also seen a few tags crossed out and tagged over, with a “14”, which means there is a gang war going on. I believe even though we have a gang injunction in Virgil Village, they don’t enforce it because it is a poor area and isn’t gentrifying as fast as Echo Park. I hope Garcetti does something fast, Virgil Village is a great part of the city and I hate to see the constant tagging and filth on the street. Gang Injunctions only work when they are enforced (i.e. see Highland Park vs Virgil Village).

  9. The first amendment says the right is to “peaceably assemble.” Just like some types of speech are regulated more closely than others (commercial v. political speech), certain types of assembly can be regulated. Let’s understand that the penalty for violating the injunction is NOT a criminal charge. Violation of the injunction is civil contempt of court, punishable by fine. Even people who are identified in the injunction are still able to congregate in schools, houses of worship, their private homes, and community events (as long as they are actively participating and not loitering). This injunction is not a sledgehammer but a narrowly tailored remedy aimed at specific elements in the community who have shown no qualms about using gun violence as part of their daily operation.

  10. Good start City Atty Feuer! Looking forward to CM O’Farrell’s and Mayor Garcetti’s continued support of EP and hoping the INJUNCTION is a step in the right direction. We in District 13 voted for you! I commend Feuer’s cognizance and the precautions he’s taking to avoid mistakes and make sure former members are treated with dignity and have plenty of chances to be regular citizens.

    As for the controversy, I don’t see EP residents complaining about the injunction. It’s everyone who doesn’t live here. It’s great to support gangs, when you’re not victims to them. If you read comments here (and from past Eastsider posts), it’s organizations and those who don’t live in our neighborhood who comment on any controversy. We, who live in Echo Park, have to constantly clean our graffiti and continue to educate our kids at a young age about gangs – because they exist. We still fear our kids joining a gang — is that a fear anyone on the Westside has? If there was even a 5% of the gang activity going on in Brentwood that is going on in EP, do you think there would be any hesitation for a similar injunction? Just because there’s more of us colored here with not as much money, does that mean we should live with compromised liberties? A better Echo Park = A better LA. Let us be the example of an awesome turnaround!! Let us show everyone how awesome diversity looks. Former gang members, we welcome you as a part of this turnaround. Keep our parks and streets clean, our schools safe and striving, our community creative and progressing!! Let’s get pass defending ourselves, so we can progress (better education, better services, free WIFI for everyone in EP!).

  11. I live in Echo Park and I am against the injunction. See my comments above. I have spoken to a number of people in Echo Park and Silver Lake, mostly of the civil libertarian variety, who are strongly opposed to the injunction. I haven’t spoken to anybody who is for it. But it could be that my circle of friends includes people who moved here when the gang problems were severe, are happy with the improvements in public safety under Garcetti and who think that this injunction is overwhelmingly motivated by people who moved here in the last 3-5 years and who think that this neighborhood should be like the West Valley. (Also, some of us think that this may very well be racially motivated.) This neighborhood has never been the West Valley and god-willing, never will be. I want it to continue to be safer, but I don’t think that young brown boys should be sacrificed so that newcomers can have a false sense of security. This neighborhood has gotten safer in the last twenty years WITHOUT gang injunction. And it will continue to do so, with or without a gang injunction.

    • I am a civil libertarian also. Keyword: CIVIL. This is a CIVILIZED society. We practice CIVILITY in a CIVIL way. GANG MEMBERS DO NOT DESERVE ANY RIGHTS THAT ARE AFFORDED IN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY. They are terrorists, and should be sent to Guantanamo. Plain and simple. This isn’t stop and frisk. There is a list with 300 names on it.

      • You clearly don’t understand what it means to be a “civil libertarian” — at all, not in any way. I would engage you if I thought you could understand, but I really think you are missing the point — by about 10,000 miles.

        • This is much worse than stop and frisk. If you don’t understand that already, I do not have to time to tell you. You clearly do not understand the way that civil liberties work. Sadly.

        • The gang injunction isn’t just for any brown dude. It is a specific list of 300 people who have previously been convicted of crimes (most of them- multiple crimes) against their neighbors. In a civil libertarian world, you are free to do as you wish— until you impede others’ quest to do as they wish. Gang members prevent free members of society to living how they want to live. They destroy our property, steal our material possessions, and commit acts of violence. Pedophiles shouldn’t live near schools, and gang members shouldn’t live anywhere except jail.

          • It’s a lie that there is a specific list of 300 people. The injunction will issue against an unincorporated association (insert name of gang here) and three hundred people (mostly men) who are, of as now, unidentified. The LAPD will have discretion to expand it or limiit it. And once it issues against these YET UNIDENTIFIED young men, it will issue for life, unless they make a strong showing that it doesn’t apply. The LA Times article makes a compelling case on this point. Most people who get on this list NEVER get off of it.

            There is just no comparison between this and stop and frisk. Stop and frisk is bad and wrong, but it is a on-time imposition on your right to go about your business. This injunction is for LIFE.

          • The list won’t only include those who are convicted of crimes. Spotted hanging out with your cousins who are on the list? Congrats, you’re on the list now, too! LAPD spokesman acknowledged in an interview on KPCC that it is difficult to remove yourself from the list (unless you’ve “demonstrated to the police and the community” that you’re dedicated to turning your life around, which sounds kind of arbitrary to me)

          • Good. Maybe youngsters will think twice about joining a gang if they see how detrimental it is to themselves to be included on a gang injunction list. If I was about to join a gang in EP or was thinking about it, I would give up those dreams because of the injunction. People on the gang injunction list must live with their poor choices that have lead them down this road. They have nobody to blame but themselves. Just to give you a reminder: we are talking about GANG MEMBERS here. Not people who got a speeding ticket; not someone who didn’t pay their taxes; GANG MEMBERS. Get rid of all of them!

          • You’re ignorance of gangs is astounding. Like kids are really consciously aspiring to have a career to be in a gang and commit violence and kill or be killed. If your blind ass even knew half of these gang members and how very human they are you would think otherwise. You beings who lack basic human compassion make me sick.

        • cristi, please tell everyone where they can sign up for your Pro Gang Lobby. i’m sure you will have a wealth of support.

          • At least Cristi’s supporters would have the courage and integrity to show their faces (see picture above). I sincerely doubt that the pro-injunction rabble would ever dare do the same. After all, even they sense the shame of their fear and prejudice.

          • It’s not about supporting gangs. It’s about everyone enjoying the same rights.
            I live in Glassell Park and there was an active gang injunction here a few years back. This meant a lot of things for me. Such as, not being able to be out after a certain time and feeling anxious every time I saw a police officer it felt like every time i saw a cop i had to tuck in my shirt and walk straight. Keep in mind I was not in any gang. However, I had a few friends, also not gang members, who had been placed in the gang injunction and saw how their lives and families lives changed for the worse. The gang injunction has created this distrust of government officials in me. It has been worse for others, like some of the friends I grew up with, now see the police as an enemy and are more likely to side with gangs.

            A gang injunction like a Socialist government only sounds good in theory. People will abuse the power and in the end it will only benefit some people while the rest are oppressed. I’m not talking about the gangsters being oppressed.

            The gang injunction in my neighborhood has not worked. Okay, so some of the gang members who were smart enough to fly under the radar by growing their hair and covering up their tattoos continued to recruit the next generation. There are still killings and drug deals and everything that comes with gangs in your neighborhood, albeit, not as big. The problem has spilled over to include normal people such as myself. A few years back I wouldn’t think I could ever be mistaken as a gangster. Although, that changed right after the injunction went into effect. A good elementary friend of mine was killed by a rival gang who did not believe he was not a gangster. He was gunned down along with two relatives while walking to the store on Division.

            Although, I don’t think i will change the mind of those who are for the gang injunction i hope that you guys know this gang injunction will only farther split the community apart. LA times is right, the gang injunction isn’t justified. I can see it being overturned once the city gets enough complaints or lawsuits.

          • “now I see the police as an enemy and are more likely to side with gangs.”

            wow Joe… just wow.

            Joaquin, you are right. Who would want to show their faces to a class of people who have no problem following you out to your car or coming to your house to KILL YOU? What a stupid comment. We’re here though… right here… and we’re going to come after the gangs with our phones and our testimony and our dollars. Tell your people to get ready for it. We’re coming to the aid of the police.

            as for the Pro Gang Lobby, they are at the YJC who needs their funding pulled. I’ll be calling Cedars Sainai Hospital today to let them know that they are advertising on a site that has videos of these “kids” calling the police pigs. (really???) If the YJC is continuing in its support of anti police measures and tactics then really all they’re doing is fomenting more gang activity. Why doesn’t the YJC create these jobs or the rec centers they feel is so justifiably theirs? Instead they waste their time marching against police brutality. Reality Check; The police wouldn’t have to be so brutal if the gangs just disappeared.

  12. Every gang member needs to be rounded up, then publicly tarred-and-feathered at a public ceremony at the Echo Park Lake. Just like the good ol’ days:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering

    From there, they can be forced to walk together in chain links from Sunset Junction to Mariachi Square in Boyle Heights.

    Spectators will be given a list of their individual home addresses, with special 20% off discount coupons on Krylon spray paint at the local hardware store, where citizens may tag & paint their homes on the special, glorious day.

    After the tar & feathering, they will be bussed to Reseda and Canoga Park where they can pick up the litter on ground all throughout the West San Fernando Valley. If the gang members lack proper American citizenship, they will be promptly deported.

    This is not a satire.

    Gang members, take your useless, violent, juvenile-minded antics elsewhere or face consequences.

    • Yup, it’s wrong for them to commit those acts when they’re labeled as crimes. But it’s okay for people to commit those acts in the name of “payback”. That’s not hypocritical at all.

  13. Here’s a map of all the current gang injunction of Los Angeles.
    http://www.lapdonline.org/la_gangs/pdf_view/50162
    Maybe drive around, check out these other areas, ask yourselves if these injunctions are working and will one work for you.

    • Echo Park resident

      Does anyone remember how bad Highland Park was 5 or 6 years ago? The area has changed for the better. Lots of families moving in, clean streets and less violence than when the Avenidas ruled the area.

      • The Ave’s still rule the area, my wife and I own a home in HLP, our property is still vandalized regularly and HLP has still experienced in the last months; homicides, rapes, aggravated assaults, robberies, drug sales (source: LAPD crime map 90042 4/1/13- now). There are 3 gang injunction in HLP against 3 separate gangs (Aves, HLP, Dogtown) and they all are still around committing crimes. But, to your point, Yes, overall crime rates are lower than what they were 5 or 6 years ago. However, I’m not sure if that’s a result of gang injunctions or a result of rising rents and real-estate values as some people get priced out of the area and families move in.
        There are 44 gang injunctions all over LA, is HLP the only one “working”? How about in areas where realestate is flat or has gone down, whats the impact of these injunctions there? I’m not sure how we define successful or failure, what is the criteria? Is it to get rid of graffiti? is it to completely eliminate gangs, is it to get their activities off the street? is it just to lower crime rates? if so how low? what is success? Has any area really achieved success, since we know every area with a gang injunction still has gangs and gang activity.

        • Echo Park resident

          Yeah, I know HP still has issues…but I do remember being in college and hearing about innocent bystanders being killed for sport by the Aves quite frequently. I distinctly remember a story where several people were killed just because they took a wrong turn down an alleyway while navigating HP at night. It’s definitely not as lawless there anymore.

          Speaking of random violence, I am surprised that the two big attacks against innocent non gang members in EP haven’t been brought up — the stabbing in front of House of Spirits and the murder down the block from the Gold Room. Too much.

    • Gang injunctions work when they are actually implemented and enforced. I found out there is a gang injunction in my neighborhood. It’s not working because they don’t enforce it. But in places like Highland Park, it is working.

  14. Echo Park is not safe. It has a lot of gang activity. It may be better than before but it does not mean that it is not a problem. Gang injunctions have worked in other neighborhoods so Echo Park should use it too.

    • OMG……..it was SOOOO dangerous “before”what the hell is before ? like before it was hip to your standards ?
      Look at Venice, Brooklyn, even Santa Monica (parts of it ) were all crappy in the early 90’s .
      Everything was bad , and goes through stages !
      Quit acting like Echo Park was the New World and the the hipsters with mommy and daddys money are the Conquistadors trying to civilize the natives ! get a F—– grip !

      • Silver Lake resident

        My dad lived in Echo Park in the 60s when he and his family immigrated from Cuba. It was bad back then, too, and he said he had to constantly fight off gang members at Virgil Middle School who were trying to get him to join their ranks. The area has been crime ridden for at least half a century. The only time it wasn’t nice was in the 1900s – 1920s when it was a destination for the wealthy citizens of Los Angeles.

        So, no, it wasn’t just bad in the 90s like everywhere else. Gangs have been a problem in EP for far too long.

  15. Please bring the gang injunction to Virgil Village/East Hollywood, Mayor Garcetti. The LML sect of the MS13 have been tagging like no other summer. Now they are involved in a turf war due to all the taggings. It’s not safe and looks horrible to have so many different squares of colored paint on all of our walls. A neighbor even had his garage door tagged. Enough if enough! The era of gangs in LA is coming to an end. Let’s do this Garcetti and City Council! I am also a civil libertarian and guess what— GANG MEMBERS DO NOT DESERVE ANY RIGHTS. Give ‘em all you got boys! Stamp out gang violence forever!

  16. Gang members, get out of Echo Park while you can. You are being exterminated by us citizens who will live in peace sooner or later.

    • I’m a citizen too. Most of these kids are citizens. Your comment just goes to show that this is indeed, partly, motivated by racial animus.

      • Please Cristi, please inform me where in my two sentence commentary where I even alluded to anything regarding race. YOU are the one mentioning race. How ignorant can you be, race baiter? Why do you want this so badly to be about race? And if these street terrorists are children, then we shall punish their parents.

        • Re-read your own post. You are alleging that these kids are NON-citizens and that US citizens will stop their criminality. I’m sure you are not implying that these kids are undocumented and brown right? Oh, of course not. (Extreme Sarcasm.) Race-hate much?

          • Cristi, what are you rambling on about? So I can’t use the word “citizen” to describe the inhabitants of Echo Park who wish to live free and safely?! I never once said anything about illegal immigrants, what is your deal?! You are the biggest racist I have ever seen on here! Quit putting words in my mouth and quit accusing me of implying something I did not imply– grow up and learn some reading comprehension!

          • Cristi, you are over reacting by a long shot. It doesn’t surprise me, since you are part of the gang lifestyle.

            A definition directly from Webster’s of “citizen”: An inhabitant of a particular town or city.

            Notice nothing about the word “citizen” according to Webster’s implies anything about any race or creed. You and your gang member groups need to go away from Echo Park forever.

          • NOP you used the word US citizen. You know what you were implying. You deal with your own problems. I don’t want to deal with you.

            DISGUSTING (what an apt name)– get a life. If you met me in real life you would be shocked at what I do for a leaving. You clearly can’t read, so I suggest you enroll in some continuation classes, just for starters. I’m not addressing you any more. You are clearly a person of low intelligence.

          • Not for a leaving, but “for a living.” Whatever.

          • cristi…

            you should probably calm down and re-read his statement. he mentions “us citizens” as in “we citizens”, not “USA citizens”.

            us is a word, not an acronym, in this case. now perhaps you should apologize for jumping all over this guy because you misunderstood his intent and meaning.

          • Cristi, again, I stress reading comprehension to you. I said “us citizens” as in “we citizens”. NOT “US” (I would have used all capital letters) as in “United States”. Seriously, how ignorant can you be? Do you think you can just go through life blindly implying things such as this to try and get one of your narrow minded and racist points across? It doesn’t work on me, and judging by all of your other responses on this thread, it doesn’t work on the rest of us either. If you want to live in a neighborhood where gangs are allowed to reside, then maybe you should check yourself into the county jail and live there.

        • Your attempt to reinterpret your own writing (and meaning) is no better. You are trying to explain that you meant: “us citizens” versus WHAT exactly?! Who are those mysterious others? “us citizens” versus “you non-citizens”? “us citizens” versus “you ,….. indescribable other”? Who are these mysterious others that you ar against and are against “US CITIZENS”?! People who don’t belong here? Any way you put it, it is about “us” versus “them”. Who are them exactly? Not waiting to hear your stupid answer.

          I’m done with you.

          • i believe he meant ‘us law abiding citizens’ versus non law abiding citizens. Honestly, it was clear to me from the first post.

          • But that is not what he wrote. He wrote “us citizens”. He didn’t write what you said. He just did not. Since this is a racially charged issue, I am honestly, and sincerely surprised that he did not think that using the words “us citizens” would result in an honest interpretation that he meant those “others” were not citizens. In fact, they are just “others.” It is “us” against “them.” I’m not trying to be difficult. This is just what he wrote.

          • And, if you don’t think this is a racially charged issue, you are DELUSIONAL. I don’t smoke. But, if I did, I want to smoke whatever you are smoking.

          • Christi, you’re embarrassing yourself. You are reading what you want to see, not what has really been written.

          • It’s very simple Cristi. Gang members are terrorists. They are hardly citizens. So, simply, it is WE CITIZENS vs the gangs. WE CITIZENS vs terrorists. WE CITIZENS vs crime. And lastly, WE CITIZENS vs gang enablers and sympathizers— people like YOU CRISTI!!!! As I said before, I am not sorry that your family members are in gangs. They chose their own path. Now, you and your family must leave Echo Park for greener gang pastures in Pomona, South Central LA, or at the County Jail.

          • holy cow! cristi went from making some truly valid points to batshit crazy in about 45 minutes. i am sure when they lock her up in the asylum she’ll be mumbling “eastsider, eastsider, eastsider, eastsider” as the mantra of her madness…

          • Cristi, you aren’t doing anything to help this situation. The OP clearly did not mean United States citizens, as others have pointed out, and I also knew that country of origin was not implied in his or her statement. To your other points, this IS an “us vs. them” situation — “us” being non gang members and “them” being the gang members themselves and gang enablers like you.

            I am Hispanic. My family has lived in this area for decades. We are decent people with no ties to criminal activity. My dad worked for an auto dealership, my mother worked in an office. My siblings and I all worked hard to go to college. We like to think that the cycle of Latinos in gangs can be broken here in Echo Park, and us (not United States!) Latino EP residents have to be part of the solution and stop being part of the problem. This isn’t a racism issue. What if this injunction was being proposed near Crenshaw and Florence? Statistically, I assume any gangs falling under an injunction there might be mostly African American. What if it was in Glendale? Most of the gang members would be Armenian. Gangs are gangs, and all law abiding citizens who choose not to participate in gang activity should be able to live in peace without the fear of property damage and physical violence. It’s not about race or class, it’s about safety.

            But please, come tell my immigrant parents why you think they should just move out of the area because they’re being discriminatory against the gangs that have robbed their home, destroyed personal property and mangled my mothers garden. Tell my parents why they need to keep the bars on their windows. Tell them they’re being racist against their own kind. They might be able to enlighten you.

          • Well said, Echo Park Lake (right above). I want your parents to enlighten this board. It’s a race issue, but a different kind. I will need some statistic to back this up, but aren’t crime victims in these areas more likely to be those of us of color?

          • I want to make clear that “Hispanics” like EP Lake and EP Resident do NOT speak for the majority of those with similar if not identical backgrounds. My conservative immigrant father hated gang members too but he never became an apologist for bigots whose hate made little if any distinction between gang members and an immigrant like my father. His college-educated son prefers to honor his example along with Cristi.

  17. Cristi is obviously in a gang. That is all.

  18. The accompanying picture to this article is alarming. Echo Park IS dangerous. I am sick of this “the crime has went down” or “it’s not as bad as it used to be” excuses. If you have a fire break out in your home, do you put the fire out but say, “there is still a little bit of fire in the kitchen, but most of it is out, so it’s ok”

  19. ……….will the injunction stop all the stupid Coachella hipsters with beards and girls with floppy hats and moldy hippy dresses from drinking in the park ? Why the double standard ?

    • Since drinking in the park is as bad as a crime as theft and tagging, you may have a great point (sarcasm). Thank you for showing your bigotry for people who do not dress the same as you, though. Great to know we have such tolerant neighbors in Echo Park.

    • Milton, the last time I checked, the floppy hat contingent didn’t shoot stay bullets at my parents’ car, and the PBR hipsters don’t tag up our home with EXP and CYS. In fact, a family of these so called “hipsters” live next door to my Latino elderly parents and they are wonderful, caring neighbors. Wish I could say the same about the gang bangers down on Waterloo.

  20. People keeping saying there’s a “turf war” going on. I don’t see homicides on the streets of EP, I don’t hear about drive bys happening regularly, or almost at all, I’ve never even seen a rumble take place. It is true that traditionally speaking tagging and crossing out means something violent is about to happen, but I’ve seen ExP cross out the Crazies and vice versa for years now and keep expecting shit to hit the fan, the streets to change for the worse because of it but it hasn’t happened. These young men and women need guidance, structure and a sense of belonging. And where their parents and family have failed, society needs to be comfortable with extending a helping hand because if you don’t extend a helping hand (social services, life skills workshops, vocational training) it’ll be A LOT more expensive and detrimental to society then waiting for City Hall and LAPD to step in.

    Violence, graffiti, liter, property crimes, assaults, rapes, etc are all things that nobody wants. But a blanket injunction does nothing to make it safer and reduce crime. Nothing. It’s a reactionary response to a problem that needs a proactive solution.

    A community will never grow if we keep believing that only people in City Hall or those with a badge and a gun can resolve our problems. Everybody who wants change is within their rights to speak their concerns and search for answers but we have looking to ourselves to fix things.

    I feel like I’m beating a dead horse here because people are judgmental and think that anybody who opposes this is a “gang member” “gang supporter” or “bleeding heart”. But there has to be a middle ground here somewhere, a compromise. It’s just the anger coming from certain people’s comments and feelings about gangs, injunction opposition, and different approaches is what is truly alarming.

  21. “And where their parents and family have failed, society needs to be comfortable with extending a helping hand because if you don’t extend a helping hand (social services, life skills workshops, vocational training) it’ll be A LOT more expensive and detrimental to society then waiting for City Hall and LAPD to step in.”

    I meant it would be “more expensive and detrimental to society waiting for City Hall and LAPD to step in.

  22. ENOUGH STOP CRYING…

  23. Ugh. Why must it always be so complicated. everything in the injunction seems exactly like you’d want it be. Stop gangs from congregating and stop all of their activity from tagging to dealing to robbery to harassment in the EP area: http://www.atty.lacity.org/stellent/groups/electedofficials/@atty_contributor/documents/contributor_web_content/lacityp_025845.pdf the fine line is that LAPD need to do it with finesse so that it doesn’t become another NYC stop and frisk disaster. The sign in the photo above is absurdest at best — the ongoing tagging I see every time I walk EP Ave or Senset suggests the gangs are more than active, which which suggests anything but a “safe” Echo Park.

    Safe = No Gangs. Do the injunction LAPD, but do it smart.

  24. I went bird-watching to “Echo Park Rising” this past weekend and can only chuckle at the presumed “gang problem”. What I saw was a balanced mix of hipsters, longtime residents, and visitors there for the planned festivities. I also saw what could be perceived as a cluster of injunctionable subjects. Primarily brown, not gang-affiliated, or seeking attention, just with the authentic rough edges of growing up in a barrio. The L.A. Times editorial effectively exposed the shrill protests of those who insist this is the community that requires an immediate increase in police presence rather than a renewed emphasis on traditional crime-fighting methods. I’ve said from the beginning, I suspect that a cleaner and safer neighborhood is not their priority. By all objective measures, that neighborhood already exists. Instead, I suspect that the prejudiced and xenophobic comments they submit to these articles betray their true motives. Fortunately, sober and fair minds seem to be prevailing and some should seriously consider “fleeing” the community that they simply do not consider clean or safe . . . enough.

  25. They should remove all gang injunctions in the city of Los Angeles Or put all the city on injunction because if you argue Echo Park is safe then all Los Angeles is safe as well. No double standard for any neighborhood or it’s citizens. What’s right is right and what’s wrong is wrong.

  26. I live right in the impacted area – my street in Echo Park, north of Sunset, is tagged at least 2x a week and we’ve had a major uptick in shootings on our block. The idea that crime is not on the rise is ridiculous – BUT gang injunctions only amount to racial profiling and WILL NOT solve the problems. The police have already stopped and questioned my two neighbors (both of whom are Latino, both of whom are hard-working and who support their families – this is racial profiling and the injunction will only make it worse).

    We need real policing, after school programs and JOBS!. It’s not magic, but these three things would solve the problems in EP.

  27. Even if the gang injunction is pushed through , its still up to the COMMUNITY to keep a look out on suspicious activity. Quick question to you guys…. What would happen if i released a website with pictures of KNOWN gang members, their names , and tags + where they hang out ?… With recent activity ? ExP , CYS , SL … brb gonna TroLL some gangs… TRoLOLOLOLOLOLL

    • that would actually be a pretty awesome art project if one were to make giant pictures of the local gang members and hang them everywhere.

    • I think the people of the community would respect you for doing that. My cousin goes to college in Ohio. He said they have a newspaper similar to the LA Weekly, but it only posts mug shots with the crime that person committed attached the mugshots. It might not be a bad idea to know who these people are.

      • That newspaper sounds like fun !

        • I asked my cousin at Ohio State University, he said the newspaper is called “Busted”. He bought one because someone is his class was published in there for DUI. Public humiliation sounds like a very strong crime deterrent.

          http://www.bustedmugshots.com/

          • Public humiliation is a great way to show these cowards some people don’t play games. But most importantly I aiming towards showing EVERYONE in the communities “who is who” , and to keep a look out for those individuals . A gang database is great but it only shows names and MAYBE pictures. This on the other hand will give a person a detailed report of ONLY gang bangers , taggings, alias , picture and MAYBE( sec. footage, address , car / make *model) and i will include also UNKNOWN gangbangers . i.e(those that still haven’t gotten caught to be registered in the LAPD database)

            The website will be designed for the community and only the community. In time I will be adding more communities and also a phone app .

            In the end… I do it for myself , and for everyone else that is worried about their children. I want no money out of it, and it will be an AD FREE site.

    • That’s an intriguing idea(?). Please model your transparency by including bios with pictures of newspaper “correspondents”. That will show gang members that sincere concern and conviction are your motives not fear and prejudice. Can’t wait to read the first issue!

  28. ITS ALL ABOUT PROPERTY VALUE AKA MONEY. ..

    • It’s about protecting our kids from violence and drugs.
      Gangs aren’t part of our culture.
      Gangs are the enemy of our families.

    • Quick question: who pays for local education and services? Oh yeah, property taxes. Higher property values = higher taxes = better services. Average new homeowners are footing about $8,000-10,000/property a year. They should be fighting way harder!

  29. There is an injunction in my neighborhood. And it works.

    And when I last checked, my neighborhood is still full of mostly brown people but with a lot less tagging and violence than before the injunction was in place. The only people that seem to be unhappy with it are the gangbangers and their enabling perpetually screwup families.

    There should be a citywide blanket injunction against all gangs. They have no place in society and contribute nothing but fear, intimidation, death and destruction.

    • Well said. And I agree that all gang members must be pushed out of LA into Pomona or into the County Jail. I am worried that the gang members will just move to areas outside of the gang injunction to do their business. I live here by Bellevue Park in Virgil Village/Silver Lake/Echo Park/Westlake and I am concerned that our gang activity will ramp up even more (if that is even possible, it’s already awful).

    • @Windowpane: Several earlier, broader injunctions against gangs have been struck down by courts, going up to the California Supreme Court, because they covered too wide an area, effectively denying the right to assemble. That’s why the injunctions that survive concern neighborhoods or parts of neighborhoods. No way a citywide injunction would fly (even a smaller city like Burbank).

  30. can whoever is wheat pasting the “stop the injunction” posters on the front of stores, please stop? they are on the front of my office, and my poor old neighbors are trying to scrape it off the front of their store right now. kind of difficult on stucco. thanks.

    • Goes to show you that the gangs and their anti-injunction friends have no respect for any property. I feel that the community needs to know who these gang members and their supporters are. Let’s see the criminals’ faces so we know who we are dealing with.

  31. I came to the conclusion that i will be pushing out the website soon… Expect a link within a few days once the website is pushed LIVE.

    My goal is to show the community/communities who are these people that tag , and terrorize your neighborhoods. It’s one thing to download a PDF of KNOWN gangmember names its another when you have FACES attached to the names + graff art . It lets people know who they come across with. I will also show areas THESE people live in with descriptions in current hot spots.

    #2 (The Special treat) – Some of the people i will be posting aren’t in the gang database but will still have pics, name , alias , and maybe even current vehicle ? :)

    #3 – Gangbangers that tell their friends about the site , and try to find out who is in charge remember buddy (Programmer) .. I <3 proxies & VPN's … . . .

    To the community – Once its up , spread the word. Just don't try to contact me for i will not respond nor read emails. for MY safety. Goes double for other blogs or newspapers. triple for the cops. .. Get ready for the Sh*t storm . .

    • Thank you, kind citizen, in your work at exposing the criminal element of our neighborhood that we are so desperately attempting to eradicate. I am sure I speak for many people on this board when I say, we are anxiously awaiting the debut of your website.

    • You should include a submission form for people to submit photos of tagging, perhaps with a geolocating feature to put the uploaded tags on a map of the area? I think Google Maps UI allows for something like this.

      • - @Micheltorena. I was actually going to include Geotagging with Signature detection. But before all that i’m in the starting stages of security walls. One thing in development is covering tracks i.e( communities + Cellphone + pictures = data that can be traced ) So what i want to do is develop a system where all pictures can be saved on a secured server with geo tagging and the rest can be dumped , deleted and never archived so EVERYONE remains ANON. I want everyone to feel secure , and knowing that NO ONE will EVER know if they have submitted reports about graff or violence. …. ok can’t reveal much more . I want things to be a surprise :)

    • Wow. Potential game changer. Good luck to you!

  32. I don’t care how long your family has been here or what color your skin is or isn’t; if you are in a criminal group that goes around committing crimes of all types— you need to get out of the neighborhood now. Gang members brought this injunction on themselves. I am SICK of the tagging and property damage.

  33. It was a Historic day yesterday at the silver lake council meeting, to see Echo Park, Frogtown and Crazy’s come together as one and call a truce a day after the tagging up EP Ave. This is what you call neighborhoods coming together as one.

  34. OK, so we have established that the argument is “criminals vs. law-abiding citizens”. Fair enough, that’s a matter for the civil process. Now for the more important and difficult issue:

    Opponents make a compelling case that in reality an injunction, though claiming it will be reasonably used, will in actual practice allow the false criminalization of innocent associates, which is the significant harm that opponents reasonably predict: the case where a non-gang-member is walking down the street with his brother or cousin who happens to be on the list, gets stopped by the police and falsely added to the list when he is in fact innocent. This would be a substantial abuse of state power where the innocent are criminalized for exercising their right to free association. No moral person could claim this to be just. It is common for minorities and the poor to experience this kind of false criminalization in America.

    Hand-in-hand with this is the fact that once someone is put on the list for whatever reason, since it is a civil procedure, they will not even be informed that they are on the list. It then becomes a very serious injustice.

    Further, even when they happen to discover that they have been wrongly listed – they have essentially been convicted without a trial (“trial by cop” which is the opposite of justice) – they are then forced to take considerable unreasonable effort to sue the authorities to get off the list. As everyone who has dealt with these selective enforcement lists knows, the innocent person must then devote unreasonable energy to petitioning the bureaucracy in order to get themselves removed from a list on which they were wrongly placed. This burden is infinitely higher on lower income persons than it is on the high income persons who support such unjust practices while running no risk whatsoever of being subject to them.

    Without strictly enforced prior appeal rights, leaving it to police to populate such lists violates the most fundamental American creed that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

    In order to be just, nobody should be able to be placed on such a list until they have first been given the opportunity to defend themselves beforehand in a public proceeding presided over by elected representatives. It is simply un-American to leave the populating of such lists to the police or other unaccountable body without affording the subject a meaningful opportunity to defend themselves against it before the fact. Anything less is a tyranny which no just, moral American should support.

    • Nicely worded counterpoint — “…Anything less is a tyranny which no just, moral American should support…”. Yeah but.

      How about the tyranny of gangs?

      • Calling the gang situation in Echo Park tyranny is hyperbole and not legitimate. Echo Park is obviously a very safe neighborhood overall, all the police statistics show it getting safer all the time, and the vast majority of complainers are complaining about vandalism, mostly graffiti. Only a truly tiny handful of more serious crimes are noted in this thread, and to any serious observer they are evidently as rare as they would be in any relatively safe mid-income neighborhood in LA. Many of the most rabid pro-injunction responders on this thread are vastly overblowing the danger and conflating a lot of graffiti with a lot of personal danger which is just not legitimate in any way. The poster just below here has the good plan – more community involvement, neighborhood watch programs, increased patrols, etc. and not the overblown panicked draconic police state solution of an injunction of questionable value and morality.

  35. Wow – I put some effort into my well-reasoned post about the ethics of a gang injunction, and it had no unsavory language, just ethical observations, yet the moderator deleted it. Apparently the moderator does not allow honest viewpoints with which s/he disagrees. How telling that the moderator allows all sorts of emotional rhetoric but not a reasoned viewpoint.

  36. Perhaps instead of a gang injunction where it is a direct challenge to the gangs, the approach should be more subtle and nuanced. Increased beat patrol, where cops get to know the neighbors, businesses, etc. Increased afterschool activities to keep the kids occupied and challenged with something other than gang related stuff. Graffiti and tagging patrols, so that any gang related turf tagging is immediately, within hours removed. All that tagging needs to come down as fast as it goes up. And lastly some high traffic areas need a good powerwashing and trash pickup and weeding I think it’s the broken windows syndrome the more an area is cleaned up and maintained the more it seems to keep the taggers at bay (not permanently, there’s always a random one out there, but it seems gang related tagging goes down when it is cleaned up and the neighborhood is taken care of..

  37. The way out of poverty, the way out of gangs, the way towards a healthy community for all is jobs, community centers, music schools, counseling, education, affordable housing, a hope for the future. Work on that, and gangs will go away.

  38. human rights? it’s a public safety measure. Just as you don’t allow sex offenders to live within a certain radius of a school, a KNOWN GANG MEMBER is not allowed to congregate with other KNOWN GANG MEMBERS in communities that clearly have too much gang activity. This is one of many tools needed to stamp out the idiocy that is gang lyfe in los angeles. for those who dissent, can you point to one real instance where someone’s “civil rights” have been limited? and no, i don’t count hanging out with other gang members in public a civil right.

  39. Echo Park resident

    What about the rights of residents who are not involved in criminal activity to live in a safe neighborhood? Latino or white, hipster or senior citizen, rich or poor — all citizens of Echo Park should not have to deal with the constant vandalism, intimidation and violence that gangs bring.

    I myself am Hispanic, with family roots in the area, and I fully support the injunction. This injunction isn’t about racism — it’s just a fact of population distribution. We have to acknowledge that most of the gang members in this area happen to be Latino. If we were in South LA, perhaps most of the gang members would be African American. If there was a white gang or an Asian gang or an Armenian gang terrorizing Echo Park, I would want them punished and driven out, too. Perhaps the Hispanic residents of Echo Park should be asking themselves if they are living their lives and raising their children to stop the cycle of Latino gang involvement and criminal activity instead of being quick to pull the “civil liberties are being violated” card. Criminal activity is criminal activity, regardless of your race, and it’s time for this to stop.

  40. this is dumb. you could easily learn the answers to your questions by doing a bit of research.

    as for rounding up groups of law abiding citizens. this is california, we helped start to trend to extend rights to gays. your comment is flippant and uninformed.

  41. Highland Park. Been here for years and spend quite a bit of time in Echo Park as well.

  42. Some “Keyboard Warriors” get the job done. Tr0lolololol

  43. Probably at work or taking care of our families… things gang members and their supporters know nothing of.

  44. Wouldn’t expect anything less than childish name calling from a gang supporter…

  45. i haven’t weighed in on this issue (and I won’t), but I imagine that many people are probably fearful about voicing their opinions in a public forum (in a room full of people who may or may not have gang ties). I would imagine that those people are instead taking part in an email campaign, urging their representatives to go forward with the gang injunction.

    just a guess.

  46. I am proud to be a keyboard warrior. I am elderly and I email everyday. In this day and age, (the present and future), using your keyboard gets the job done. Gang members and you gang supporters live in the past. Don’t you read? Just last week, a guy TWEETED at Garcetti about a pothole and guess what? Pothole filled in the matter of hours. And you think me being elderly, I am going to walk into a room full of gang members and your kind who support these terrorists and speak out against you? Sounds more like mob rule on your end.

    Once again, proud to be a “keyboard warrior”.

  47. Echo Park resident

    You wanna know where I was? I was at work. I work until 11pm every night this week — not a schedule that’s conducive to attending community meetings. I have, however, sent many letters to city officials expressing my support of the ban.

  48. And how do we stop the constant tagging? I am sorry, but it has gone on long enough. Time is up. I am a good neighbor to everyone on my street. Why can’t the good neighbor vibe be reciprocated? GANGS ARE NOT GOOD NEIGHBORS. There is no redeeming quality about gang life, quit drinking the kool aid!

  49. Good for you Concerned! You’re the type of responsible citizen this community needs a lot more of. I’m proud to have you as a neighbor.

  50. Thats a questions that cities all over the entire world have been asking themselves for years. I don’t think anyone has found a viable solution, not even a gang injunction.

  51. A gang injunction unfortunately will not stop the tagging. Not sure how long it’s been going on, but it doesn’t look like it’s ever going to stop. Tagging and graffiti art even led the way for world famous, millionaire artists like Banksy.

    Kids need education and role models more than anything.

  52. You should be proud. Your profile is the definition of a “keyboard warrior”: angry, feeble and frightened. It’s also a good reason why you should not be dictating what goes on beyond your front door and impose your nightmare on the rest of us.

  53. What do you mean “probably”? Can’t you account for your own whereabouts last night? Or at least concede the irrational fear that determines your thoughts, opinions, and actions?

  54. Could you please stop qualifying every one of your posts with “I myself am Hispanic, with family roots in the area,” as if that automatically gives you the moral high-ground on this issue? Official profiling and intimidation of ANY ethnic group is unjust, immoral, and ILLEGAL. Of course, those facts don’t ever seem to prevail over “I saw him reaching for a shiny object and felt that my life was in danger”. Even when the facts refveal differently. You don’t seem to have any sympathy or associated remorse for those incidents. That defense has become so standard and predictable that it is the best reason for the “usual suspects” to oppose the increased presence of armed officers in our communities. At least until accountability becomes a two-way street.

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