Wednesday, October 26, 2016

How much is that Echo Park apartment? Maybe it’s best not to ask

Photo by ishane/flickr

Apartment investor and blogger Moses Kagan has taken another snapshot of apartment rents, this time focusing on Echo Park rentals north of the 101 Freeway. Anyone now looking for a one-bedroom in this area will find a limited supply and higher rents compared to earlier this year, said Kagan after a survey of  Craigslist ads for Echo Park apartments during the month of May. The median asking rent for a one-bedroom was $1,450 – a 26% increase since February. Rents on two-bedrooms were down from February but the median asking rent was still $1,995. If you could squeeze into a studio, the asking median rent was $1,043.

A check on Craiglist on May 25 found only 24 Echo Park apartments north of the freeway, Kagan said. Perhaps it’s time for tenants in search of lower rents to spend more time looking for places south of the 101.

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  1. That’s a lot of money to be living in such a crime-ridden dump of a neighborhood.

    • Excuse you, but we would not want to live any place else EP is a wonderful, culturally diverse neighborhood. It is not dumpy. I’ve grown up here and downtown LA now as an executive for a multi million dollar real estate company I would rather live here than anywhere in Los Angeles.

  2. Really ?? Uhhh …didn’t someone just get stabbed in Echo Park last week…and the week before that …and the one before that ..and ..and..and

  3. This is why they need to increase housing supply and build more apartments in the neighborhood. So tired of greedy landlords.

    • Greedy landlords? HUH?

      You do realize that MOST landlords (especially in these zip codes) barely break even.

      Just shut up you ignorant guttersnipe.

      • Build more apartments = greedy developers.

      • If landlords barely break even, then why do they bother? Out of the goodness of their hearts?

        • If a landlord can hold a property for a long period, they have a (chance) to realize some capital appreciation. Though it is not guaranteed (as demonstrated in recent real estate markets), real estate is usually a good long term investment.

          So to answer your question, yes. Until the owner can sell the property, they ARE managing a bunch of whiners that assume the same way you do that they are making lots of money.

          Meanwhile your rent goes to:
          Property Tax
          and usually…

          • HipsterSheepLandlord

            +1 henry.

            How can anyone say “greedy landlord” in a city with rent control… The landlord has no power in city of LA under RSO.

            FYI, if someone will pay it, it’s not too much. That’s how markets work.

            If no one will pay it, then the landlord is the fool who has allowed his property to sit vacant on the market…He can then learn the expensive lesson to price his property at the prevailing market rent in his area. The idea that one would put the title greed on someone who is leveraging their money to create rentals for those who can’t buy is insane.

          • Spoken just like a greedy landlord. If it’s truly that hard to make your money back off an investment than you should find other ways to fill your pockets. Be happy that you live in this capitalism driven country were your able to hold land and eventually make some type of profit off of it. As we see more and more people opting to rent than buy, I think we will see even further expansion of renters rights in this city. Your view points sound antiquated and not at all in the progressive or community orientated. Perhaps N. Carolina or Texas would be a more fitting state for you to live in. Certainly not Los Angeles, California.

          • “Real estate is a good long-term investment.” I agree with that. Which means that landlords, despite having to hold on to assets for a long time, are in it to make money. Which, in turn, means they aren’t doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

            Landlords are not into this game to pay our water and trash. They’re in it to make money. Which is totally OK. But don’t make it out like they’re not, even if it is down the road.

  4. We moved to vegas and now we pay 460,for a one bedroom.In a very safe area need i say more?

    • las vegas weather for the weekend 102-106 degree’s = $460/mo for rent and $1000/mo for air conditioning!

      put 50 bux on black for me!!

      • Yeah, and I hope walshais REALLY likes the inside of that 1-bed, ‘cos you can’t really go outside!!

        I enjoy the outside of the lake, the hiking trails, and what not…every day.

        Location location location.

  5. It’s surprising with the lake being in shambles…once it opens next year (if it does) these rents will skyrocket even more. What a bummer…catching up to Silverlake prices now.

  6. That’s an awfully dubious survey of rents — strictly those listed on Craigslist! You cant even always tell on Craigslist whether they are in EP or not, or what part of EP! And they fall off the list in a day or two. So, Westside Rentals seems to have cornered the market for rentals, not Craigslist.

    Still, that number might not necessarily be too far off. But I will say, plenty of one-bedrooms are available in the area at $1,100, $1,200, even $1,000.

    But at any of the prices mentioned, you will often find two people doubleing up in order to pay it. That means much higher density in EP simply because of landlords charging so much. That affects the density as much as building more in the area, but it doesn’t get the attention that construction does.

    • Thanks for the comment, Susan.

      Almost every CL ad includes an address, which I personally cross-check against the LA Times neighborhood map to ensure it’s actually in Echo Park.

      We currently manage 50+ apartments in EP, Silver Lake, etc. and have experimented with both CL and Westside Rentals. I use CL for the rent survey b/c I find their coverage of available units in NE LA to be better than Westside Rentals.

      Hope this helps!

      • Remember, a CL ad is a ‘asking price’ ad, it’s not a statement of what the apt actually rented for, and the terms.

        I sometimes see a CL ad for a address that is there for MONTHS, as the owner tries to rent at a ‘above market price’.
        Or, you see the same ad, but the rental ‘price’ asked slowly trends down (as the weeks/months linger on)–so kinda ‘testing the waters’.
        OR, the place rents, but the actual rental price is negotiated lower than the CL ad lists.

        Unfortunately we don’t quite have the records collection capability for rents as we have for property sales. i.e., on Redfin you can look at the trend charts and see the trend line for ‘listing prices’ and then the ‘actual sales prices’ per sq ft. You can see that often the ‘listing price’ average can be VERY far from the actual ‘sales price average’ per sq ft.
        And even so, those price averages don’t take into account ANY upgrades to the property since the last sale, so they are by default skewed also.

        • God point, fleaman. Just like housing sales, where thee asking price doesn’t really reflect what it sold for.

          Because while prices are way too high, there are plenty available for well under that $1,450 mark — that just can’t be average rent because far too many are being offered for less than that.

        • Good point, fleaman. Just like housing sales, where the asking price doesn’t really reflect what it sold for, so too for rentals.

          Because while prices are way too high, there are plenty available for well under that $1,450 mark — that just can’t be average rent because far too many are being offered for less than that.

  7. It looks like the rental prices are back to where they were before the recession started in 2008… if not higher.

  8. bring on the higher rents! for it’s the only way the formerly hispanic grocery half of pioneer market will ever become a Trader Joe’s!

  9. It is unfortunate since my family likes this neighborhood and we are being priced out. Not looking forward to our apartment search come July!!

    • Ironically, the increase in numbers of people/families that like this neighborhood IS what is causing prices to rise.

    • You are not being priced out. You are probably under rent control.

      • It’s possible LadyK doesn’t live here ‘yet’. She ‘likes’ the ‘hood and will be apt searching in July, etc….

      • No, wrong, she probably isn’t under rent control. Nothing built since 1978 is under rent control. No cottages in back yards are under rent control — any stand-alone unit is deemed a single family house under rent control rules and exempt. No single family houses are under rent control.

        And those under rent control keep getting raises (even when inflation is at zero or less because Garcetti single-handedly blocked a change in the law to lower the minimum 3% rent hike, and increases can be as high as 8% plus more if utilities are included!), and new fees added on and endlessly increased by the City Council — and at some point, they find they have to look for a cheaper place because they can’t pay the now higher rent.

        • Actually, a cottage in a back yard is probably under rent control as it would be ‘two to a lot’. A single family dwelling is exempt from rent control, Unless>

          “The single family dwelling exception means one occupancy unit alone on the entire land piece containing it. It does not include many common situations in LA that involve a house. A house in front with an illegally converted garage functioning as a second unit IS NOT exempted, because it is a two-on-a-lot. A house in front with an apartment over the garage in back IS NOT exempted. A house split into two separate units [i.e. two kitchen areas, separate bathrooms] IS NOT exempted, because it is a duplex, whether upstairs-downstairs, front-back, side by side, or a bachelor unit converted from a large bedroom or patio of the house. A tenant who has lived at least 30 days in a rooming house [large house where rooms are rented out separately] IS NOT exempted. Houses on adjacent lots joined by a “lot tie” ARE NOT exempted, because the lot tie makes them legally one lot; a house straddling two lots or shared utilities are the usual clues, but a parcel map would show the small diagonal slash along the property lie which is the lot tie. “

          • Wrong, fleaman. Two on a lot that are not attached are not covered by rent control. That was a question in the very first year, and when the rent control board issued its regulations, it gave the definition that if they are unattached, they are single family homes exempt from rent control under the clause exempting single family homes. The board said the clause about two units or more being covered applies only if they are not single family homes, that is only if they are attached as a duplex or more.

            Laws get interpreted, and that already been officially interpreted.

          • Los Feliz has always been more expensive than silver lake.
            Silverlake always more expensive than echo park.
            Echo park always more expensive than highland park.

            Los Feliz 1bdrm rents for 1850
            Silverlake 1750
            Echo park 1450
            The currently super hip highland park rents a 1 bdrm for 1100!

            Turns out LA is getting more expensive.
            As is NYC
            As is San Fran

            As is Gas
            As is EVeRYTHiNG!!!

          • Can you tell me how “two or more dwelling units on the same lot” can be interpreted differently? From LA city’s own website> http://lahd.lacity.org/lahdinternet/RSO/tabid/263/language/en-US/Default.aspx

            Says clear as day that it’s covered by rent control (assuming no other exclusions of course).

          • Actually, was wondering if you could provide a link with the “new interpretation”, thanks.

          • HipsterSheepLandlord

            Sorry Frank but I think fleaman is correct. I know people personally who rent a cottage that is two on a lot and have stuck it to their landlord for violating some RSO terms… If you have evidence supporting your claim, it would be news to me and I’d love to understand it.

          • To add insult to injury, I think someone who has a single-family home with an illegally-converted garage unit – or other illegal unit – might find that his/her property falls under rent control when it comes to relocation fees for the tenant. In a worst-case scenario, such as when the house is on an R-1 lot and there’s no way to legally convert to a duplex or two-on-a-lot, the DBS might force the owner to return the property to its original (single-family state) – and LAHD might require the owner to pay relocation fees to evict the tenant of the illegal unit. Oh, and don’t forget to pay the LAHD a fine for unpermitted construction.

            If you’re considering buying a rental property in Los Angeles, it really pays to obtain all the permits from DBS – and study them carefully, with a draftsperson or an architect or someone else who knows the ins and outs of the zoning and building codes. I have learned a lot of this the hard way.

  10. wow Ryan is racist…and classist.

  11. I moved in to my nice-sized 1 bdrm in Hollywood 10 years ago for $550, now paying just over $900, and it looks like it’s stuck in the 60’s but it’s worth it for the low rent. Can’t imagine moving now.

    • Perfect explanation for why rent-control is bad for tenants too. You’re now stuck in an apartment you can’t afford to leave. Without a specific exit plan, you won’t be able to leave…. Unless maybe someone eventually pays the $18+k to move you out when you’re a super old man.

      • What do you mean when you say “You’re now stuck in an apartment you can’t afford to leave.”?

        • i have a friend who has been living in the same apartment for decades. his rent is $500. if (and when) he has to move he will be looking at paying at least twice as much for an apartment. he is used to living within the budget he has set up for his current rent. It probably won’t be long before the landlords renovate and find a way to give him the boot. And who can blame them? He and the other tenants are paying far less than market rate. My friend has no exit strategy and I believe he will sooner or later be asking to sleep on my couch for awhile.

          I think that is what George means.

          • So, you’re logic is that if they didn’t have rent control, so faced very exhorbitant rent, they could AFFORD that overly high rent someplace else?

            How is that? If they can afford to move to that someplace else as long as they are paying too much now, then why can’t they afford the move now if they are paying less? They either have the money and can afford to pay that higher rent or the don’t. They’re not “stuck.” What they have is the option to stay where they can afford rent.

            Complete lack of logic.

          • that’s not what I meant at all. I pointed out that my friend has gotten a little too comfortable in an increasingly unsustainable situation. eventually he will have to pay market value for an apartment somewhere, and it will not be a pleasant thing for him.

            I didn’t state an opinion in regards to rent control; just gave an example of what I thought the first post was getting at. for the record, the wife and I are landlords of a house in EP (that is in great shape and rents for less than market value). although we think that rent control is a great idea, the place we have is priced cheap as we prefer to have good tenants who will stay for awhile.

  12. We knew it probably wouldn’t last forever, but living in a rent controlled apartment (and paying below market value) for 16 years is what enabled us to save enough money to finally buy our own place.

    • Probably the only benefit of rent control mr. rollers! Allowing you to be subsidized by the landlord via city ordinance allowed you to save some money to make it on your own.

      Good for you! Unfortunately some people don’t understand these government imposed “training wheels” will only be a disservice to them if they don’t take some personal responsibility.

      • I’m not really interested in getting into a debate about rent control here, but in our case it wasn’t exactly the way it was. We had a landlady that lived on the property (a small bungalow court) and owned it free and clear. She could have charged a lot more for rent from the day we moved in, but that wasn’t what she was about.

      • So, if a person gets thrown out on the street due to a market fluctuation, that means they are irresponsible and deserve their lot, right?

  13. As soon as the renter or all the renters out there realize that they deserve a bailout too, all the comments regarding this discussion are moot. Iisten people,, it takes a court order to evict a person for non payment of rent and let us say oh 10% of the people stopped paying their rent…. The courts would be clogged, speculators would loose their shirts and fot that 10%, free rent for at least a year if not longer. Lets hope that doent happen.

    • While YOU may be a person of lesser character willing to skip out on your rent, MOST people are good in nature and would not consider this to be a fair and justifiable action.

      Most people understand that creating chaos would be a BAD thing not a GOOD thing. When you get to third grade, let me know. We’ll start working on some more difficult subjects.

  14. A little hot under the collar there Harry? I know im right, and you know im right, your reaction to my post says it all. Your probably one of those poor souls who borrowed more than they could pay back hoping someone else would cover you. Well get ready, cause a Renters Revolt is comming soon!

    • Really? Didn’t your parents teach you that in life you must work to support yourself? You must get an education and become a productive part of society. Where did you get the notion that someone, anyone, other then yourself, should supply you housing? If you do not want to be a renter, buy something for yourself. Where is the logic in blaming others because of your inability to successfully support yourself.

      • Thank you Jane.
        Dave is a perfect example of the self-entitled generation coming up that thinks the world owes them… better pull your shit together son before the world swallows you up.

        And no, I’m not overextended at all. My properties are doing quite nicely thanks. Oh and it’s Henry not Harry. Mr. Hawk would be preferred. Thanks.

    • HipsterSheepLandlord


      I assume there is some sarcasm in your voice that is being missed in textual form 🙂

      If you honestly do believe that renters in the City of LA have any reason to revolt, you really are out of touch with reality.


    • I look forward to evicting you.

  15. Uh, what? Why exactly should renters revolt?

  16. Not out of touch with reality, just a couple of months in front of it. Renters should revolt and will revolt because the property speculators decided to take cheap money from the banks in the form of low intrest rates which has lead to the astronmically high, unsustainable rents and prices we see today. The unlucky ones face forclosure, the guys like harry who think they are sitting on a golden egg are in for a shock. The revolt has begun, look at spain and greece. Maybe Jan of 2013 for Echo Park?

    • Dave, what you are saying will not happen. It won’t. Your words are just silly comments in a silly comment section. This is the only form of protest you are able to muster up and its rather sad considering all the other things you could be doing with your time. If you don’t agree with me then revisit this page in Feb 2013 to read your childish nonsense. Now please, go back into the sandbox with your Tonka trucks and your imaginary friends while the adults conduct grown up business to keep the children fed, clothed and sheltered.

    • Bitter loser?
      Public assistance child who was taught to expect a free ride?
      Plain old hater who cannot stand change and progress?

      I am trying to figure it out. You speak above about “poor souls who need to be covered” and then you would like a years worth of being “covered” because you lack the means to live where you would like. Disturbing!

    • I told you it’s Mr. Hawk, stupid.

      How could someone that cant even read organize a revolt? Can you also herd cats? How ’bout that ocean front property in AZ?

      i feel so sorry for you. I can’t imagine being that far from reality. Do you have family in the area? You may want to write their contact numbers on your chest with a sharpie. it’ll be easier for them to find out which mental ward you’re in.

  17. I don’t see this as being a silly website with a silly forum.
    Compared to main stream media, this forum is as real as it gets. Take heed fellow renters, the comments on this blog, this antiquated thinking expressed by these landlords shows exactly how they feel about their tennants. Yes educate yourself, work hard, but above all, do not be taken advantage of because they have artificially inflated the price of everything by fradulent lending practices! And the landlords now have their hands just as dirty as the bankers by charging absurd rents.

    • You don’t have to live in Echo Park. If you want cheap rent, go find it-it’s out there. I am a landlord and I have every right to charge market value for a unit if one becomes vacant. My long-term tenants pay way below market and I don’t harass them or treat them any differently than the newer ones. a renters’ revolt-you must be tripping on something…

    • It sounds as if Dave is making a Marxist argument; I’m guessing he disagrees with the whole concept of private ownership of property. If that’s the case, there’s no point in arguing with him because his mind is closed to all opposing viewpoints.

      • James, a very generous assessment! i mean even pulling out the ideological alignment!

        But he has only demonstrated retardism.

  18. We don’t have rent control and do live in Echo Park…2 different places in past 5 years!!!!

    • Not all places fall under rent control. Generally speaking, single family homes (that have never been rented before) and any building built after 1978 are exempt.

      • It’s my understanding that all single-family homes – where there is only one home on the lot – are exempt from the Los Angeles rent control ordinance.

        • If the single family home has ever been rented (and the owners [stupidly] reported it as a rental) then the exemption paperwork must be filed annually with the LAHD.

          If it is owner occupied, then they can file for permanent exemption. But, that will take some work (as does getting anything done with the LAHD bureaucracy)

          • http://lahd.lacity.org/lahdinternet/RSO/tabid/263/language/en-US/Default.aspx
            From the above website:
            To be subject to the RSO of the City of Los Angeles, a property must meet the following three criteria:
            The property must be within the City of Los Angeles; and
            There must be two or more units on the lot; and
            The building must have a Certificate of Occupancy issued on or before October 1, 1978. (In the case of mobile homes and mobile home pads, the park must have been issued a permit to operate before February 10, 1986).

            Properties exempt from the RSO are as follows:

            Properties located in other municipalities or within unincorporated areas within the County of Los Angeles;
            Single family dwellings, used as such;
            Properties (except mobile homes and mobile home pads) with a Certificate of Occupancy issued after October 1, 1978 (new construction);
            Mobile homes or mobile home pads when the park was issued a permit to operate after February 10, 1986;
            Government owned properties;
            Units occupied by an owner or family member where no rents are collected;
            Vacant units (10 days to register upon rental of the property);
            Properties permanently removed from the rental market;
            Luxury Housing Accommodations issued a Department Certificate;
            Demolished RSO properties;
            Hotel/Motels – with tenancy under 30 days [Changed from 60 to 30 days pursuant to Ordinance 176472, Adopted February 1, 2005; Effective March 26, 2005. Council File 03-1517.];
            Non-profit owner units, with certain qualifications.

  19. The Los Angeles Municipal Code (LAMC) contains the Rent Stabilization Ordinance. The official version is available online at http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=amlegal:lamc_ca
    According to section 151.02 of the RSO, only rental units are subject to rent control.

    1. No dwellings built after October 1, 1978 are considered rental units.
    2. One -family dwellings are also not rental units, unless there is more than 1 dwelling on the same lot.
    3. luxury accommodations are not rental units.
    4. substantially renovated accomodations are not rental units.
    5. mobile homes are not rental units.

    Clearly, a guest house built in 1977, is subject to rent control, but one built on November 2, 1978 (or later) is not subject to rent control

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