Friday, October 21, 2016

Does Echo Park need a gang injunction? Some people say “No”

By Tony Cella

An activist group that is opposed to a proposed Echo Park area gang injunction says the legal action has more to do with boosting property values than public safety.

Kim McGill, an organizer for the Los Angeles advocacy group Youth Justice Coalition, said most of the city’s gang injunctions are enacted to hasten gentrification after the most brutal periods of street violence have ended. McGill referenced recent LAPD statistics showing some of the lowest crime figures in the Northeast and Rampart divisions, which include Echo Park, since the 1967. Census data has also shown increases in the number of white people living in 90026 Zip Code, which contains the neighborhood. One of the surveyed areas saw an increase of 17 percent from 1990 to 2011.

“There’s no evidence” that crime has been on the increase, said McGill, whose group has been holding meetings at the Echo Park Lake.

The injunction would apply to more than 300 members of six rival gangs  in an approximately four-square-mile area that includes Echo Park, Elysian Valley and portions of Silver Lake.  The injunction would prohibit members of active gangs from associating in public and impose heavier penalties for gang-related crimes committed in the neighborhood. The city claims gang graffiti, spent shell casings and criminals congregating on sidewalks, stoops and parks create an intimidating atmosphere,  which infringes on residents’ right to feel free from harm.

The gang injunction, which was was proposed in mid June by former City Attorney Carmen Trutanich, has the backing of newly elected 13th District Councilman Mitch O’Farrell.  “I’m supportive of it,” said O’Farrell during a luncheon sponsored by the Los Angeles Current Affairs Forum.  Similar gang injunctions in Atwater and Glassell Park “have saved lives,” he said.

(First District Councilman Gil Cedillo, who also represent portions of Echo Park, did not respond to requests for comment.)

O’Farrell echoed comments by City Attorney Mike Feuer that the gang injunction needs to be crafted so it  won’t infringe on civil liberties and used in combination with gang intervention programs.

“The City Attorney believes that the successful implementation of prevention and intervention efforts could preclude the need for gang injunctions in the future,” according to a statement issued by Feuer’s office. ” He also is strongly committed that any gang injunction must satisfy all legal requirements and protect every individual’s civil liberties.”

An August 21 court hearing has been scheduled for the injunction.

But McGill said that her group and others believe that preventing gang members from gathering in public, as called for in the injunction, could  be used to justify racial profiling.  Alleged racial profiling in gang injunction areas, the activist groups claims, scares non-white residents into staying indoors because they fear police harassment, which is the opposite of the intended effect.

“The police presence is so high, people not named in injunction feel unsafe going outside,” she said. “In the middle of a sunny day, parks and playgrounds are empty.”

McKill also countered the city’s notion that Echo Park’s residents feel under threat. She noted  that groups of all races and ethnicities  hang out at Echo Park Lake, where the Youth Justice Coalition has held meetings on weekends.

“Every Saturday the park is full,” she said. “No one is being intimidated.”

Approximate boundaries of area that would be covered by proposed gang injunction.

Tony Cella is a freelance reporter who has covered crime and grime in Los Angeles, New York City and the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska. Click here to contact Cella with questions, comments or concerns.

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  1. Thanks for including that map – it really helps understand the area we’re talking about.

    • Isn’t Echo Park and the adjacent NE neighborhoods predominately Latino (at least over the last 20-30 years)? Wouldn’t that mean that Latinos would benefit the most from gang injunctions since they dominate in numbers? Numbers aside, wouldn’t Latinos too want to end gang violence in their neighborhoods?

      If these are “Latino” gangs, I’m not sure how the police would enforce an injunction other than targeting Latinos that look like gang members – perhaps a shaved head and lots of tattoos with their gang name would be a start? I have to assume the police are not going to breaking out the taser gun or 9mm pistol on the young latino man wearing a USC ball cap, or sporting skinny jeans. Perhaps some wannabe Latino gangstas could comment on this idea – those with gangsta style, but without the temperament to actually commit to the lifestyle. Maybe they could also explain why they want to look like a gang member when they are in fact, non-violent, law abiding citizens.

    • Echo Park Tenant

      I have lived in Echo Park/Silverlake for over 5 years. I have witnessed in the last three years a rise in gang violence in my neighborhood in Echo Park. I have Contacted the police many times for shootings at night. In my neighborhood the increase of shooting guns, burglaries, car thefts, gang graffitti ~up and down~ our street on a daily basis, city comes to cover up the tagging paint once a week, homicides- that means killing by the way ~within a few blocks. If you don’t believe it, sign up for the police crimemapping and see..daily crimemapping in your zip code and watch the trend. YES, there needs to be a gang injunction asap. The whole neighborhood is tired of the gun shots at night time and some stray bullets flying into houses where people live, and car windows being shot up. This is also a nice looking neighborhood so looks don’t mean that there isn’t gang activity.

  2. What more proof do they need than graffiti, a killing? Yes, a gang injunction is needed here and in Hollywood.

      • Interesting. There is one killing that is missing – that of David Martinez. He was shot by police on March 19, 2013, and he has since died. Someone made a report of an “armed gang member.” Police said Martinez had a gun, but they never found one. Mr. Martinez was getting tacos with his wife at Sunset and Echo Park.

        • Mr. Martinez ran from police, hence the pursuit. Then he inexplicably turned around and ran right at them, which is the dumbest possible thing you could do. It was night, he had a history of gang involvement and intoxication. They thought he had a gun. What happened was definitely a tragedy, but for you to omit those facts and paint it as a black and white “evil cops” incident is naive and untrue.

          • “Mr. Martinez ran from police, hence the pursuit[?]. Then he inexplicably turned around and . . . ” tried to SURRENDER. Btw, what “pursuit”? It lasted all of 4 to 6 steps before Mr. Martinez was shot down. You spin this tragedy into some perverse moral lesson and wonder why other taco-loving people are determined that their life’s legacy isn’t determined and written by prejudiced morons like yourself.

          • They were running after him. hence it was a pursuit. From all the news reports, it was a city block. not 4-6 steps.

            Did he try to surrender? We’ll never know for certain. But if that’s what he wanted to do, then stop and get on the ground. Was what he did ‘wrong’? no. Dumb? intimidating to the officers who only had a split second to respond? Yup.

            I’m saying it wasn’t a black and white situation. I DID say it was a tragedy. I just like to look at ALL the facts from BOTH sides.

            Keep calling me names buddy, really helps you make your point.

          • Never mind the news report. I saw the video. He took 4 to 6 steps before deciding “Oh-s**t?! What am I doing?!?” Turning around, raising his hands but before his arms were even fully extended, the group of officers began shooting. An INNOCENT Man guilty of NOTHING besides fitting a generic profile and shot dead on the streets of your(?) neighborhood. Proud?

          • ” . . . intimidating to the officers who only had a split second to respond?”, which brings me to my other point. Why is a group of armed officers, with specialized training, wearing bullet-proof vests, and carrying a virtual arsenal of non-lethal weaponry being intimidated by a virtual vagrant who was trying to surrender? THIS is what people want to increase in our neighborhoods? . . . Oh(?). I guess I just answered my own question.

          • “Did he try to surrender? We’ll never know for certain” Waddya MEAN!? He was UNarmed?! Are you seriously trying to insinuate that this lone individual was preparing to karate-chop five or six armed officers running AT him NOT “after” him? Please STOP. This is just another tragedy unfolding before our very eyes(?!).

    • I’ve lived in Echo Park most of my life. I really never feared being out at nite cause i grew up across frm the PUEBLOS a housing project in so central LA .. Im older now and with all honestly post Im afraid of my neighbors. Yes Im afraid of the New Echo Park. My I know all the homeowners on my block I do not know the renters. My tires have been slashed twice, mycar covered in beer bottles my worst experience to have had to endure a Zimmerman victory party. To have to put up with disrespectful young womenwho scream at old men.!! YES IM AFRAID of being painted as gang affiliated an never been in one Im retired law enforcement. My law enforcement training taught me to never show fear. I won’t , but frm now on I photograph record all. Sick of being told to go back frm where I came .born raised in the USA . Where was this gang injunction when we had to hit the floor or when I got a gun put to my head. Or when my kids would get roughed up By the LAPD cause the neighbor lady lied about a gun. My neighbors are trying to build a case of fear against me? Geez I feel like I just went back in time 20 yrs. Only hooligans I see now hang out in front of the Echo The echoplex lot 1, gold room, shortstop , and all public parking lots filled with loud drunken women among the newly arrived drug dealers. POLICE and Select Patrol harass our kids while the criminals get s free pass. Justice no JUST US …

  3. There definitely is a gang problem in Echo Park. To say otherwise is just ridiculous. The gang injunction is a good idea. It will decrease crime and make the area safer. If it has worked in other areas, we should use it.

  4. Grahm Wellington

    Not sure how anyone could be against an gang injunction except gang members.

  5. Does Echo Park need a gang injunction? Some people say “No”, but those “some people” are probably in gangs.

  6. This is a no-brainer question. EVERYONE knows that Echo Park as well as El Sereno & Lincoln Heights are in much need of a Gang Injunction. Every day there is tagging in these areas and the city just wasting our city tax dollars on paying these graffiti removal services and paint supplies.

  7. I don’t buy the premise that all Latino folks are going to be subject to police intimidation. Gang members wear their own “uniform.” The shaved head, white-shirted, tattooed stereotype exists because it’s real. I don’t think anyone who doesn’t fit the bill is going to bothered. And the graffiti, at least in my neighborhood, is getting out control. Bring on the injunction!

  8. although not a ‘gang’ memeber, I am a ‘latino’…of course white people won’t have the misfortune of being ‘harrassed’ by the local police enforcement because you won’t be racially profiled if this injunction were to take hold. It has worked in other neighborhoods (that were mostly latino communities) to intervene during gang wars (not to safeguard and protect white people). You certainly can’t enforce this type of witch hunt without infringing on the civil liberties of those being profiled, which are young latino boys/men, just to keep them out of sight for the sake of property values.

    • I am also a ‘Latino’ and police enforcement doesn’t intimidate me, it makes me feel safe. Especially after my Echo Park home got broken into. I’ve lived in this area my entire life and many of the police officers that work in this area also grew up here and are also Latinos. I don’t understand this argument.

      • bingo. people are very wrong to argue that increased policing is a net negative because of a small number of incidents where police have failed in various respects.

        These people ignore all of the good the police do day in and day out, namely keeping you and your loved ones safe from dumbass Gang members.

        Whoever this is standing up for gangs needs to get publicly called out.

      • Echo Park resident

        I am also Latino and don’t buy these arguments. The only people I see get hassled by LAPD are people who are breaking the law in the first place.

    • We all know what real gang members look like. If you don’t look like one you shouldn’t have a problem………and no, a fade and sports jerseys don’t mean gang members…….paisas don’t mean gang members……….it’s the fucking vato w/the shaved dome and gang tats w/baggy ass clothes walking down the street like he’s all chingon not giving a fuck……….if that describes you, well then you may have a problem………
      Besides, the people on the list are KNOWN gang members who’ve committed crimes before, that’s why they’re on the list.
      If dirtbag ‘bangers don’t have a place to congregate behind closed doors or in a back yard and have to meet in public to plan their shit, then fuck ’em…….
      It ain’t so hard to understand.

      • If dirtbag ‘bangers don’t have a place to congregate behind closed doors or in a back yard and have to meet in public to plan their shit, then fuck ‘em…….

        well said

    • Echo Park Resident

      Cry me a river. Nobody is going to be racially profiled if they don’t behave like a bunch of thugs and vandals. If the youth of this neighborhood want the respect of this neighborhood, perhaps the tagging needs to stop.. forever.

      I am a mixed race person and a long time resident of Echo Park. I want to live in a clean neighborhood where property both public and private is respected by everyone.

      I would like to see offenders who are caught applying tags to be sentenced to four consecutive weekends of drill-master supervised graffiti cleaning. They should be issued a bucket of cleaning solution, rubber gloves, and scrub brush and forced to meet a quota of removing 250 tags a day or else the day doesn’t count and they must repeat it.

      I also think their parents should be forced to pay the city for the clean up!

      • Many of these taggers don’t have a home life to speak of for a number of reasons, but that doesn’t give them the right to tag all over the place. And some of these taggers are much more hardcore now so it’s not surprising if they’re carrying hand guns with them too.

        The advent of windows being fitted with rod iron security screens is a testament to uncontrolled gang activity in neighborhoods. Walk around a neighborhood and if you see most homes with rod iron security screens over their windows, there is a gang problem.

      • B.S.! I share your preference for a clean and safe neighborhood but fear the cops and “vigilant” neighbors more than I do gang members when I take my dog out for a walk or simply want to walk to run an errand. Why? Because I’m a big, dark, Chicano with a goatee and a preference for baggy shorts and pressed white t-shirts. Which one of those is a criminal offense? Otherwise, the modest number of gangmembers around here KNOW who the gangmembers are, which means I have little to fear from them. Btw, I’m also a college-educated, home-owning professional. I figure that’s the offense I’m predictably challenged about before being told to “have a good night, sir” IF I’m lucky. God forbid that some “Latino male” is suspected of having committed something, Anything, in the vicinity. Because then I am possibly Fk’d.

        • “Otherwise, the modest number of gangmembers around here KNOW who the gangmembers are, which means I have little to fear from them.”

          I oppose profiling and trigger-happy cops, but this doesn’t make sense. You’re willing to give the “modest number of gangmembers” a pass, but not the cops? At least the cops are, in theory, accountable.

          • I give anybody who isn’t a threat to my life a “pass”. Unfortunately, under certain conditions, I can’t assume police officers won’t be a threat to my life. They’re only human but they’re armed to the gills, which makes them conspicuously and dangerously human. Accountability? What do you sincerely think will happen to the officers who killed David Martinez? We all know that he was unarmed, not the actual suspect they were looking for, and that even running from cops running at you with guns drawn is not a capital offense. IMO, the primary job of officers is to risk their lives to avoid anybody else losing theirs not taking lives so that they can survive. If survival is their main priority, they shouldn’t become police officers.

          • Btw, I at least have the option of ignoring or reasoning with gang members to respect my space. What are my chances if I challenge an officer’s behavior during the performance of their duties? Or even simply as a concerned citizen? I’d say my chances are pretty good of catching a beatdown and a serious case of “resisting arrest, interfering with a police officer”, etc. We ALL know the drill. It’s been regularly experienced and/or documented over the years and yet some insist that others ignore this reality and play-along with being the “robbers” in this game(?). NOT this “robber”.

        • procipio Ok so you admit that you prefer baggy clothes and white t-shirts, but not in a gang. Well, you should be harassed for being stupid.

          • And you should be harassed for looking like you are soliciting yourself, because you wear skinny jeans on Sunset blvd.

          • “Richy’s” response would be funny if it wasn’t so eerily similar to a falsified report describing my shorts and pressed white t-shirt or polo shirt as “baggy clothes and white t-shirt”, which apparently facilitates my arrest or death based on what crime? This is precisely why I suspect that the primary goal of supporters of a gang injunction is not community safety but rather erasing a certain populaton of people from OUR community. Nice try but no cigar. I “made it” and don’t have to take any crap from “Richys” with or without badges. Ultimately, I want to live and prosper in peace along with everyone else but don’t certain population groups can be trusted with making the judgement call about who is and isn’t a “dangerous gang member”.

          • Procopio, not all people that wear a “pressed white T and baggy shorts” are criminals, but most criminals wear a “pressed white T and baggy shorts”. It’s like someone wearing a baseball uniform and then getting mad when someone asks them if they play baseball.
            “from OUR community” – I’m assuming by saying this you mean Echo Park belongs to just the Latino population. You’re racist, plain and simple.
            “certain population groups can (can’t. sic) be trusted with making the judgement call about who is and isn’t a “dangerous gang member”. – Just go ahead and say you don’t trust white people.
            Almost everything you say is ignorant and naive as hell. I especially liked it when you said that you rather have a confrontaion with a gang member than a cop because there was less of a chance of violence with the gang member. I’ve heard of at least 3 people being assualted for asking taggers to stop in the past year. Last time I checked I didn’t hear about any cops vandalizing property and then beating up good samaritans that ask them to stop.
            The good latino citizens of EP want the injunction too, they’re smart enough to know this is about keeping the neighborhood safe – that’s it.

    • As a Latino living in East L.A. most of my life, a gang injunction is a good idea. And they should be applied wherever there are signs of gang problems and tagging. How about the civil liberties of regular residents who are afraid of the gang member activity in their neighborhoods that force them to become prisoners in their own homes especially after sundown?

      You can say that neighborhood watch programs serve the same purpose as these gang injunctions and yet people are all for them.

      How long has Kim McGill lived in this area? Not very long I presume.

    • If there were white gangs in EP sure as hell Latinos would press for a gang injunction. There aren’t white gangs, only hedge fund managers in suits on the west side.

      • When my family first move here in the 50s, the local roughnecks were white and considered themselves to be the gang members. The kids and grandkids of Okey immigrants. They were the first ones to burglarize my parent’s home. A “skill” along with various degrees of car-theft that they passed along to the area’s arch-criminals of the future. In the 70s and 80s, just about every NELA gang had their share of white homeboys and including ones of the red-haired freckle-faced variety. Some heavy-hitters among them. Anyway, I’ve known plenty of whites become gang members along with the brown kids they grew up with. Race is no deterrent to gang involvement and I just realized how much time I’ve wasted responding to your race-baiting comment. In which case, never mind. I prefer that you continue to simmer in a puddle of your own bitter piss.

        • Hello Procopio. I’m the author of the article. Please send me an [email protected] any of the white former or active gang members are interested in speaking to me. I’d be interested in their perspective on the neighborhood and the gang injunction.

      • Well, when I was a kid the cops had black jacks. For those that don’t know, it was a little piece of lead in a leather pouch. Boy, they were mostly big white men with big night sticks. I saw them beat people down to a pulp. That was back when rampart patrolled this area. They took me to jail with my brother when I was a boy, to put the squeeze on my mother for a murder investigation that happened down the street. My grandmother couldn’t stop them, they did what they wanted to back then, before cell phone cameras. I don’t put anything past them, and can tell you people the truth! Put all your trust in them and empower them to do whatever they like and just hope that it is not you in that situation, because it can get ugly for you. No matter who you might think you are. And for your gang written houses, just keep your paint on deck the same way I do! Also, the 311 number works the guy that comes out to remove the graffiti is also a gang member from Compton Crip. Nice guy though.

  9. The idea that a gang injunction would keep non-gang members from going outside out of fear of racial profiling is ABSURD. After checking out the Youth Justice Coalition website, it seems like an unfortunate mix of good ideas (providing legal resources to poor people and immigrants, keeping kids out of the crimnial justice system) with some deplorable views on how harmless gangs are. It’s not the police that are tagging up the neighborhood and committing crimes.

  10. Yay, Mitch O’Farrell for standing up for District 13, trying to create a nice neighborhood!! Diversity and civil liberties are important – gangs don’t fit into the same equation. Talking to neighbors, the majority of us Latin Americans, we are all for the gang injunction. As a non-white mixed race family, we don’t believe this to be a racial issue. Rather, we would welcome a sigh of relief that our retaining wall doesn’t get tagged on a weekly basis and that we will not have to avoid certain streets when walking to school due to gang activity. I see Ms. McGill and her group’s point; however, if she was a long-time resident, she would know that non-whites fear gangs (and its influence on our kids) more than we fear authorities (who pretty much only bother you when you are being a bother).

  11. Obviously crime rates are historically low. That’s pretty much the case across the entire country, even in Chicago. Does Echo Park need a gang injunction? I don’t know. But to say that gang activity isn’t present in EP is pretty laughable. Within the five square blocks around my apartment, houses, walls and property are tagged excessively on a weekly basis. It’s gotten to the point that they’re tagging bushes. Gunshots are also commonly heard. I joke to friends that if you hear gunshots in EP it’s probably from my neighborhood. However, do I feel threatened by gang members? No. Do I feel threatened by the police? To be honest, I rarely see them outside of the 7-11 parking lot. I’m not being sarcastic, I really don’t see them off of Sunset and I do most of my traveling on foot in the neighborhood. Also, the park should be the least of anyone’s concerns. Nothing is happening there. I’ve been walking through it at all hours of the night and day. People are trying to make it out to be the next Macarthur Park which is just absurd. What’s the point of my post? Not too sure since I’m offering no solutions. The fact of the matter is that people are bored and federal money needs to be spent or else it looks bad. It’s a double edge sword that will never be dulled. This same conversation will be had ten years from now like nothing has changed.

  12. I could have sworn there was some document that protected people’s freedom to associate with whomever they choose.

    • skr, that document is still in force. However, if a group continually violates the law and intimidates residents, then their rights are necessarily abridged, just as someone on probation or parole doesn’t have full rights.

      • oh so only gang members that have been convicted get their name on the list? The police only ever hassle those on the list? Full due process with counsel is observed when placing names on the list? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

  13. If I were Latino, I’d be pissed. Not about the injunction, but about ridiculous comments by people like Kim McGill.. saying that the injunction is only about gentrification and increasing the caucasian population. Latino families want safe neighborhoods for their children to grow up in.. just like everyone else does. Latino families (minus the gang supportive ones) would love to see gangs eradicated. For Youth 4 Justice and Mrs. McGill to insinuate that this will only help white families is offensive to me and condescending to people of color.

  14. I’m not against gang injunctions and in this case I don’t have an opinion since it’s not my area but just something for you guys to think about:

    What were some of the negative unintended consequences of previous gang injunctions?

    One of them was that gangsters stopped dressing in “gang attire”. Which makes it harder for people to identify them and it make it easier for them to blend into the neighborhoods. A friend of mine who worked for a childrens non-profit in s.la had some LAPD officer come to teach her and her staff what to look for in the “new gang attire” and it was basically business casual attire. The gang injuction forced these gangsters to stop dressing like thugs or else they got pulled over by the cops. They quickly learned that blending in was the only way to survive. Now they can’t tell them apart, the only giveaway are the tattoos and even those are being covered up by long sleeve button shirts. There have been multiple gang injunctions all over Los Angelesfor a few years now but there are still gangs, why haven’t these injunctions stopped the gangs? Well…the injunction didn’t get rid of the gangsters it just made them harder to find.

    • Honestly, if the only impact of a gang injunction was that the goons dressed better… I’d consider that a plus.

      • I know I dress better than you, and even smell better! Real cholos actually dress nicer than these bums around here that smell like wet dogs!

  15. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances [emphasis added].”
    –First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (protections extended beyond only those laws passed by Congress by the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution).

    People have the right to assemble. If someone is breaking a law — fine, charge that person with a crime. But you can’t prohibit people from associating with each other simply by labeling them. Otherwise, get ready for someone to do that to you.

    • Grahm Wellington

      Mate, sorry but you are not going to convince me that a gang injunction isn’t a good idea.

      By the way, the constitution also states you have a right to possess fire arms. How much are you willing to lean on the constitution to protect the rights of gang members?

      • “Lean on the Constitution”? Um, yes — I think that the governing document of our land enshrines some basic, inalienable human rights, such as the freedom to peaceably assemble, and that it should not be discarded so cavalierly. And I seem to remember something about “a well-regulated militia” in that amendment about the right to bear arms.

        So your argument is to not follow the rule of law in order to deny a basic human right to people we think might not follow the rule of law — people who can be put on a list to be denied their rights without necessarily being convicted of anything?

        That kind of approach leads to an authoritarian society, in which you had better be prepared to face similar oppression.

    • “…OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE.” The operative word in that phrase is PEACEABLY. I wouldn’t classify tagging, smoking pot in public, and other gang actively as peaceable.

      • If anyone is committing a crime, police already have the power to arrest them. An injunction, however, will take away your inalienable, Constitutional rights if someone in “authority” deems they should be taken away even if you haven’t been convicted of anything. It isn’t just about the rights of people who someone “thinks” are gang members, or who someone “thinks” might do something illegal, it’s about the rights of all of us. Once you stop protecting the rights of others, you lose protection for your own as well.

        A much better way of curbing gang activity is to reduce a prime source of gang income — drug money — by ending the costly and ineffective “War on Drugs.” Modern-day Prohibition only serves to enrich the military-industrial-prison complex and drug cartels. Local gang members are just pawns in a structure dominated by entrenched interests, in both the establishment and among criminal enterprises, that want to keep their profits flowing. Decriminalize/legalize drugs, and you eliminate the funding for a lot of violence and oppression.

        • Grahm Wellington

          I have a novel idea for you to pass along to all of your gang friends you are trying to protect smarkand. Don’t want to be guilty by association? Be careful of whom you associate with…

          You are splitting hairs.

    • I indulge in both rights. I assemble and I’m a gun owner. Gotta Love that Constitution!

  16. Atwater did it and they succeeded. I know people who’ve lived there for many many years and recall the ghetto bird flying every night, gun shots every night, tagging every where you would go and people would be afraid to walk out at sun down because that’s when the gang bangers would come out like cockroaches and run amuck. Now, I’m told that Atwater is a much better and quieter place, no ghetto birds or gun shots every night thanks to the injunction.

  17. Those of us who live in this area understand how necessary this is.

  18. The worst gang tagging I have seen is a mile away in Virgil Village over in East Hollywood. I drive Virgil Ave everyday to work. Every day, nearly every available wall is tagged with “LMS X3” or something MS13 related. It is intimidating and I don’t understand how or why our city puts up with this. Our city’s public and private buildings iare a sad patchwork of beige and white splotches that don’t match the rest of the building. Youth Justice Coalition: what are you doing? what are your purposes? To suggest a withdrawal of the gang injunction is absolutely ridiculous. This is the United States of America, we as citizens of this country are afforded the right to go about our business unmolested without fear or intimidation. Let us all help to clean up our communities. Youth Justice Coalition: get your priorities straight. Again, disgusting that you claim to be leaders of youth yet you wish to keep the gangs in OUR neighborhoods. These are OUR streets, people of all races and social status; NOT THE GANGS STREETS. All gangs can pack up and move away!

  19. I feel as though a boycott of Youth Justice Coalition is in order. Or perhaps an opposition group. We should not let our youth join such organizations that sympathize with criminals and gang warfare.

    • How about a Community Justice Coalition.. fighting for communities to be free of gang violence, vandalism, and general knuckle-dragging hooliganism.

    • I Dare and/or Encourage You. I would love for the people who harbor these prejudices to show their faces. Let the community see them so that we can decide who the real thugs are.

  20. Echo Park resident

    The tagging hasn’t let up in the past few months. The fact that it has spread to trees and sidewalks (ugh!) says enough to me about the need for an injunction. A neighbor of mine even had his truck tagged. It’s not about racial profiling, it’s about keeping this area safe for innocent bystanders. Gang activity isn’t legal, and gangsters have no legal right to intimidate neighborhood residents and destroy private property. (For the record, I’m Hispanic, too.)

  21. Echo Park Resident

    Yes we most certainly DO need a gang injunction because the good citizens of Echo Park are FED UP with the rampant vandalism.

    We also need a special graffiti task force and much stricter and even severe penalties for the defacement of public and private properties by the youth of Echo Park.

    I cannot tell you how mad it makes me whenever I walk up a public stairway and it is tagged up from top to bottom ow when I walk past retaining walls in front of private homes that have been tagged up the second a fresh coat of paint is applied. I have seen people scrubbing these god damn tags off day in and day out. The owners of a new restaurant just had their expensive awning tagged in 22 different places. The new gas station on the corner of Portia and Sunset was massively tagged up the minute the new building went up. I am sure it cost thousands to remove.

    Where the hell are the police?

    This is not a racial profiling issue, an anti Latino issue, or about persecution of youth This is about protecting the community from pandemic vandalism. If a gang injunction will stop all this ugly defacement of our neighborhood, I am favor of ten gang injunctions! BRING IT ON!!!

    • Tagging is not an issue of gang violence–many hipsters and artists tag and vandalize property with wheatpasting and paint– how many gringos will be pulled over by the cops when the injunction come into play? NONE! tHE INJUNCTION IN PURELY BASED IN RACISM AND WILL PUSH ALL BROWN PEOPLE OUT OF EP–GANG MEMBER OR NOT PROPERTY VALUE WILL RISE AND EP WILL BECOME COMPLETELY GENTRIFIED.

      • Take a look at the homicide report; I posted the link in one of the postings above. Of those homicides, tell me how many were perpetrated by “hipsters,” “gringos” or “artists.” Nobody is trying to “push all brown people out of EP,” as you say. Many of the folks who are in favor of such injunctions are Latino, because many of them have lived in the area longer and they have been victimized by these gangs more than some of the newer residents, especially in the 80’s and early 90’s.

        • My mother, grandmother, and aunts have lived in EP since the 1970’s and we oppose the injunction– we are latino –so stop making hasty generalizations about the people to oppose the injunction.

          What I mean to say is that there is a huge disparity between the amount of homies that get pulled over for wearing the wrong shirts or bearing the wrong tattoos while affluent mostly white people get to freely drink in public and vandalize. In Los Angeles, being white sometimes means getting away with things that brown people would be criminalized for. The Gang injunction will encourage the range of tolerance between white and brown to widen.

          • I’m white and lived here for 2 years. In those two years I’ve been thrown out of Dodger Stadium by the cops for “saying a bad word” and got a ticket for drinking in public on the 4th of July. I’m pretty sure the cops don’t care what color you are, they just like busting people regardless.

          • Why would one have the “wrong” tattoo if the “homie” is not in a gang?

      • I’m a Latino that has lived most of my life in neighborhoods with gangs and it’s exhausting have to cope with that fact day in and day out, year after year. Most people in these types of neighborhoods don’t go out at night because it’s too dangerous.

        People are sick and tired of having to put rod iron grates on every window in their home. Do you think that’s normal? Do you think residents WANT to put these types of security grates on their windows? Residents become prisoners in their own homes looking out through their iron grated windows wishing things were different.

      • Echo Park resident

        So the letters “EXP” and “CRAZYS” that constantly go up on my front wall are done by hipsters? You’re seriously trying to convince people that artists are tagging sidewalks and trees with EXP? You’re one funny guy.

      • Grahm Wellington

        So hipsters keep tagging my neighbor’s wall with BTLS and EXP13? Damn you hipsters!!!

  22. As long as they implement a gang injunction, it is not going to give me an opportunity to retire from this life style. As long as you want to put us all in a nut shell!Maybe they should put some of these people that urinate in the street, in a nut shell of their own.
    How about taking a picture of that crap some hip dude drew with a spray can down their on patras. And also this tagging could have been anyone. After all it doesn’t even look like legitimant gang writing. Maybe it’s an infiltrator

    • How would an injunction deny you an opportunity to retire from the lifestyle? Please explain, because I’m failing to see it.

      • Because, whether or not a person is active they are going to always be perceived as a member and therefore be stopped, profiled, and always harassed. That is about the time that frustration sets in, and that person may give up on trying to fight the good fight and simply stop trying and give in to those old negative feelings again. Not that any of you really care about us or our children, it is apparent that many on this commentary give a rats ass about any other than themselves. It is a crying shame that we feel this way towards our own neighbors. But, I bet if we were in some third world country, and we were the only two Americans there you would be happy to me just as much as any other American!

    • Judging from some of your past posts, I hate to say it, but it seems to me that you’ve been living the gang lifestyle for too long for society to worry about reforming you. The gang mentaiity has permanently formed – and twisted – your worldview. There are young teenagers – gangsters and civilians – who would benefit from the gang injunctions, and I’m willing to bet that many family members of local gang members are happy about the injunction – as long as it’s evenly enforced among all gangs – because it means that things will calm down in the area.

      • The crime rate is lower than it was in 1985, but yet we have people complaining on the Eastsider once again. Gang injunction? Why create a problem when there is really not a problem. Anyways not with my neighbors, unless they are saying hi to me, because they are intimidated and then run in their house and post something else up on the Eastsider, Funny! I myself really wouldn’t care about the gang injunction, but for the our kids is the main reason I show concern. You are not the ones dodging bullets and cops, so consider yourself fortunate.

  23. By Cindy Panuco of Hadsell, Stormer, Richardson & Renick LLP posted in Constitutional Rights on Friday, February 22, 2013.
    Anne Richardson and Cindy Panuco of HSRR joined Olu Orange of Orange Law Offices Tuesday to give a press conference announcing developments in the case of Rodriguez v. City of Los Angeles, et al. Rulings granting a motion for class certification and a motion for a preliminary injunction were issued last Friday, February 15, 2013.
    The preliminary injunction, issued by Judge Dolly M. Gee, prohibits the Los Angeles Police Department from enforcing unconstitutional curfews contained in twenty-six of the City of Los Angeles’ forty-four gang injunctions. It also requires LAPD to notify the thousands of individuals previously served with injunctions that the unconstitutional provisions will not be enforced.
    The provisions in question had prevented affected individuals from:
    “Being outside between the hours of 10:00 p.m. on any day and sunrise of the following day, unless (1) going to/from a legitimate meeting or entertainment activity, or (2) actively engaged in some business, trade, profession or occupation which requires such presence, or (3) involved in a legitimate emergency situation that requires immediate attention.”
    A court of appeals ruling in 2007 had ruled that such a provision was unconstitutionally vague, because it prohibited constitutionally protected conduct such as sitting outside on one’s own property. However, in 2009 Christian Rodriguez and Alberto Cazarez were both arrested breaking the curfew. That led them to bring the case against the LAPD. Anne Richardson, an attorney helping represent the two, explained, “the LAPD uses these injunctions to criminalize being black or brown and living in a low-income neighborhood. Once someone gets on the LAPD’s internal gang injunction list, it is almost impossible to get off.”
    Last Friday’s federal court injunction is a big step in correcting such unfair and oppressive practices.


    From February 2013.

  24. This is from the ACLU NorCal website:

    “Gang injunctions raise a number of civil liberties concerns, both for specific, targeted individuals, as well as any community member who lives in or visits the designated area. One of the most troubling aspects is that they often give police overly-broad discretion to label people gang members without having to present any evidence or even charge someone with a crime. Police are left to rely on things like what someone looks like, where they live, and who they know. As a result, there is a great potential for racial profiling, with a particular impact on young people of color. Despite the documented existence of white gangs, no California gang injunction has targeted a white gang.

    People targeted by gang injunctions are not guaranteed their legal right to be notified or given the opportunity to defend themselves in court prior to being bound by restrictions of the injunction, nor are they provided with an attorney.

    Additionally, many gang injunctions do not provide a clear way out for people who are either mistakenly identified as gang members or for those who have turned their lives around. This means that the injunction could follow them the rest of their life, which can make it more difficult to avoid gang activity.”


    Gang injunctions are an ineffective law enforcement tool that does not address the root problems of crime and violence. Los Angeles has numerous gang injunctions – more than any other city, yet lost more than 10,000 youth to gang violence in the last 20 years. New York is a major city with the potential for serious gang problems, yet in 2005 Los Angeles had more than 11,000 gang-related crimes, while New York faced 520. What has been shown to work at reducing violence and gang activity is funding social services, such as gang intervention and prevention programs, providing jobs and job training, and providing better educational opportunities for young people.”


    Let me re-post that last part you just in case you missed it:
    “What has been shown to work at reducing violence and gang activity is funding social services, such as gang intervention and prevention programs, providing jobs and job training, and providing better educational opportunities for young people.”

    • I’m not an expert, but a simple internet search showed me a major study in 2011 showed a 11.6% drop in violent crimes and a 15.9% drop in other crimes when a gang injunction is implemented. This is not anecdotal.

      This is an unbiased scientific study. Not talking points from the ACLU, which has a clear position on the issue. Here is a ink:


      I do agree with you there is a danger of alienating young people and families, and the LAPD and city attorney should work with us to make sure people making an earnest effort to change their lives are rewarded and not punished. But thats exactly what Feuer/O’farrell are saying as well. I also agree with you on intervention and jobs and training. But that doesn’t mean you just let them keep walking around tagging every home and business like dogs marking territory. The gangs brought this on themselves with the increased tagging we’ve sen this year, and I’m all for the injunction as a means to stop them.

      I encourage everyone to contact your council member and let them know we the residents of Echo Park need and want this injunction to protect us and our property from gangs. And outsiders like the “Youth Justice Coalition” and the ACLU don’t et to tell us what’s best for us.

      • I would hardly call a paper authored by a member of the predatory-for-profit college Kaplan unbiased or scientific. While it is published in what is seemingly a peer-reviewed journal, it’s hard not to question the value of a journal that caters solely to the “law enforcement” domain. If the paper appeared in a sociology or other social sciences journal, it would have more value in that it wouldn’t be written from the myopic point of view that everyone is a criminal.

        Interesting is the section entitled “Injunctions Are Not Viable To Address All Gangs” which makes excuses about why “Caucasian gangs” are never targeted by injunctions. No surprises there.

        Moreover, while the authors acknowledge that there are grave civil rights implications when they cite (Bulwa, 2006; Schroeder, 1999), they do nothing to address these concerns. It’s pretty much a given that two law enforcement careerists would brush aside such issues, knowing that privilege will protect them and those like them. Like you when you discuss “property” above, the authors of this so-called “research article” show no concern for human or civil rights.

        I am a 90026 homeowner and long term resident. However, I don’t believe a widespread program of racial profiling is appropriate. LAPD’s abject record on human rights puts to lie any talk of this being enforced any less heavy handed and bigoted than they have in other regions. There are a host of restorative solutions that can be deployed instead. For example look at what Padre Boyle and Homeboy have done. Families shouldn’t be pushed out of his community just to fuel the real estate boon in this area, and that’s all this injunction is all about. When you connect the dots between the Glendale Boulevard Corridor Project, greedy developers and real estate firms, certain city council members and district attorneys, it becomes clear this has nothing to do with protecting anything but big development.

    • First, there are good educational opportunities.. it’s the same as for the rest of us: public school, community college, state and UC colleges.
      Second: providing jobs.. providing jobs? Here you go, here’s a job. How about they go get a job, just like everyone else. (problem is, working a real job is hard. gang bangers are too soft to actually work a real job)
      Third: intervention, prevention programs, job training… Why don’t we just pay them money to behave? Give them all they need to live a comfortable crime free life.. free rent, free phones, free shoes, cars, etc? It would work great. Crime would be zero. The reason is: we shouldn’t have to. People need to sack up and be responsible for themselves and not have their hand held for life like a child.

      • Some of us have jobs and work hard, don’t get it twisted! You must be referring to the teen age kids that just graduated. Or you just think we all drink 40 oncer’s and panhandle all day. True Freedom? I told you, you should have changed your name along time ago. You are no more patriotic that any gang member around here, you just might think you are! I might take me some college courses myself. And learn how to defend myself, towards people like you that continuously try to assassinate one character. Man, you really aren’t no better and if you think you are, just start casting all your stones. Oh, but when you do be sure to do it over the Internet, so therefore no body knows who you are, because you just might be one of the intimidated! You are a joke, get it right pilgrim.

      • They’re soft? Do you mean in the way folks here that use pseudonyms to spout libertarian and white supremacist propaganda?

    • dude. it’s not either or in terms of funding social services and gang injunctions. positing injunctions are ineffective flies in the face of numerous studies and findings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_injunction

      there is nothing wrong with a gang injunction, unless you like gang activity.

      • I love people who site wikipedia as fact.

        • This is a shallow and uninformed dig. The linked page actually contains a lot of information, and plenty of it is simple facts, such as a history of court rulings that go into the constitutional issues surrounding these injunctions.

  25. There are better ways to lower gang violence in any neighborhood! More free education, stop cutting budgets in schools! Racial profiling does not equal peaceful neighborhoods! Don’t let the police state take over our neighborhoods. Don’t let the police and city segregate brown people from hipsters. The injunction isn’t a tool to reduce gang violence, but a tool to wipe out all EP natives and allow developers to come in and cater to a more affluent audience!!!!

    • you are delusional. we want our neighborhood free of vandalism.

    • More free education? I’m not sure how much “freer” education can get; LAUSD has just purchased IPADs for thousands of students, Northeast L.A. has dozens of shiny new campuses built in the last ten years, our city has a robust network of public libraries, there are after-school programs, and in addition to serving free lunch, now all high-school teachers are serving free breakfast to LAUSD students – in the classroom, during class time. I agree that budgets shouldn’t be cut – class sizes in most secondary schools are horrendous – but throwing more money at the educational system will have a minimal impact on gang activity if the parents are not on board. Gangs need to feel more pressure, not less. We need carrots and sticks, not only carrots.

      • I am a former LAUSD student , and my sister is currently attending a belmont zone of choice school. I can assure you that the schools in this particular area are not as immaculate as you claim. But either way–I’m not talking about more education within the realm of LAUSD, I’m talking about Art education, Peoples of Color History, Real Sex Education, Real Addiction Counseling and Addiction Education– things and subjects that the school board is too chicken to cover. I have seen the system disinterest, ignore, and neglect kids who ultimately became members of gangs. Free alternative education like that at the Eastside Cafe, Plaza de La Raza, Echo Park Film Center, CAP (CalArtsCommunityArtsPartnership), Self Help Graphics, Homeboy Industries, etc–need to be expanded to save at risk youth’s lives.

        • Grahm Wellington

          Your problem is wanting the “government” to solve all of your problems. There will never be enough funding to solve your problems.

          You need to change the culture that says it’s ok to crap out a bunch of kids you can’t afford to raise.

          Stop depending on everyone else to solve YOUR problems.

          • The organizations that BornOnLucretia cited are private non-profits, i.e., groups who fundraise and solicit funding from a variety of sources. Wellington is obviously ignorant of the difference but doesn’t hesitate to flaunt his ignorance in bitter self-righteous rage. Meanwhile, I’M simmering at the stupidity and profound ignorance and presence of yahoos like Wellington in our community. Won’t they at least consider going back to whatever tea-bag wearing community they came from?

          • Grahm Wellington


            I have 3 children attending various levels of ancillary education beyond their regular studies. Non of which rely on public “donations’ ie grants ie government tax dollars to implement. I have to fork out $1000’s of dollars per month for private schools because the LAUSD in my area has been converted into warehouses for children of loser parents. This is in addition to the tax dollars I pay for that unusable school.
            You may call me what you will as evidently “name calling” brings you some satisfaction, but you can not deny that there are cultural differences that need to be addressed. Having too many children that you can not afford to raise is one. Having a culture that focuses on education is another. Focus inward on these issues you and your mates have and you will see a change.

            …or you can just keep name-calling and finger pointing.

          • I’m with wellington.

    • what a dumb comment.

    • You do not know what you’re blabbering about. The gang injunction is a method to stop the bleeding if you will. It’s not a long term solution. You’re talking about long term solutions. Those also need to be done. But, first, you need to put a stop to the gang activity NOW. Not tomorrow, the next month or next year.

    • Someone’s been reading the OccupyLA Facebook page. The injunction is the cause du jour.

    • Echo Park resident

      Brown person here. The injunction won’t affect me, nor will it force me out of the neighborhood because I am a HISPANIC WHO DOESN’T PARTICIPATE IN GANG ACTIVITIES. Be a decent person, and you won’t get forced out, either. Sounds like all the people jumping on the “Hispanics will be forced out of the area!” bandwagon might need to look in the mirror and ask if they’re part of the problem.

      I must have missed the memo that stated because I have Hispanic blood I need to join a gang.

      • best comment i’ve ever read on this site. i’m proud that we share the same community.

      • The mothers and infants trampled and beaten by LAPD in MacArthur Park in 2007 where not, nor had, participated in gang activity. They were at a peaceful rally for May Day engaging in legal activities. Racial profiling isn’t about who is or isn’t a “decent person.”

        No one opposing the injunction is promoting criminal activity. Instead we are demanding solutions that respect everyone and don’t further marginalize and criminalize people of oppressed groups.

    • If this were true (which it isn’t) I’d still agree with the logic. Just look at the peaceful neighborhoods demographically white and Asian on the Westside, low crime, clean streets, kids can play outside, no Caucasion or Asian gangs tagging everything in sight. That’s what the East side is missing and Latinos for decades have failed to educate each new generation between right and wrong. You’ve had your opportunity and failed.
      Don’t be mad that gentrification instigated by mostly non-latinos will make the East side a better and safer place to live.
      Truth hurts, don’t be mad, just move aside.

    • Big, dark, college-educated, professional, and goateed Chicano here and NOT PARTICIPATING IN GANG ACTIVITIES is zero protection against the description of “latino male”. It applies to me regardless and why should I allow my sense of privacy or freedom be compromised just because other brown people will? I’m a first-class citizen who refuses to be demoted simply because of other people’s prejudices that isn’t even based on personal experience(!?). Just paranoid vigilance from a safe and impersonal distance. I can also confidently state that I’m a part of the solution yet why do I feel a shiver up my spine if I’m walking down a dark Echo Park street and a black-and-white is approaching? I take it for granted but I’m certainly not going to support efforts to institutionalize it based on other people’s ignorant prejudices.

      • You know as well as I do that, statistically speaking, you’re much more likely to be injured or killed by a gang member than by a police officer while you walk down Echo Park Ave. Quite often, innocent, non-gang-affiliated black and Latino men are killed by gang members in Los Angeles.

        • Please direct me to the statistical study that focused on the probability of non-gang-affiliated “latino” men in Echo Park being killed by gangmembers or officers. I’m not aware of any such study. In any case, you know what they say about statistics: Any fool can use them and any liar can make them up. Otherwise, you’re trying mighty hard to suspend common sense when it comes to officer-involved shootings. It’s much easier and commendable to align officer actions and behavior with my expectations not the other way around. “Law and order without justice is fascism” but if fairness and justice becomes the primary goal, then real progress is achievable.

  26. Living in Echo park

    Man, ECHO PARK was heavy in violence in 1990’s. But now days there are no violence going on, No gang graffiti on my side of town, I live on ECHO PARK AV past Morton. There are only a handful of gang members in
    ECHO X PARK and all they do is go to work, make there money and drink a couple of beers on there porch outside there house with neighbors/Residents who police also consider gang members for associating with there friendly neighbors. All the gang injunction can do is stop hard working Mexican/ Americans from hanging around their child hood friends and drinking beer. They stopped a gang member on ECHO PARK and Fairbanks, and sent my son to go get me something’s at Walgreens while walking down ECHO PARK AVENUE the LAPD stopped my son, and was questioning the G asking him what do they call my son from EXP, The gang member speaking the truth said he doesn’t know my sons name and never seen him in his life, he’s not a gang member. within 20 minutes they brought him back home telling me he’s a gang member hanging around gang members and was watching him associate for about 15 minutes before they stopped him he’s not a gang member he is soon to be one. My son is a straight edge kid who attends a private, catholic school, who has a full head of hair, wearing a t-shirt and some basket ball shorts. What was the purpose of stopping my kid and putting him behind a police car? I don’t want my kid in a police car for any reason, especially if he is simply running an errand for his not feeling so good mother and hasn’t been out the house for more than 15 minutes

    • “No gang graffiti on my side of town, I live on ECHO PARK AV past Morton. ”

      Sir, I have some terrible news for you: You are completely blind. No eyesight at all. I’m so sorry.

  27. To all the people citing the Constitution, ACLU, and racial profiling: I think most residents of the community are having a difficult time feeling any sympathy for gang members– regardless of race. Period.

    • non-sympathetic figures are the very ones that need thir rights protected by the Costitution. You don’t get to violate the rights of people simply because you don’t like them. But the problem really is protecting the rights of people that aren’t gang members that endure civil liberty violations because they look a certain way and are labeled without due process.

  28. I’m not sure why people equate the injunction with the end of tagging. Like tagging is allowed now, or something and it will magically end when the injunction starts.
    The penalty for graffiti is already extremely high, you think some injunction added to that is going to stop it?!
    Such a weird point for everyone to be stuck on.

    • Gang graffiti is a tool of intimidation. Plus it’s ugly as hell. And displays a naked disrespect for one’s own neighborhood. Not to mention the fact that the goons doing it will often shoot anyone who tries to stop them from their wall-pissing.

      That’s why everyone is stuck on this “weird point.”

    • Echo Park resident

      Take a drive around my neighborhood — north of Sunset off Mohawk — and you’ll see the tagging is 99.9999% GANG tags. EXP, EXP13, CRAZYS — on the fences, on the sidewalk, on the trees and on retaining walls. It’s a claim of territory, much like a dog pissing on a stop sign. A rise in tagging over a 24-48hr period often means there’s some sort of turf war, and it’s almost always ended up in some shooting, some police activity on teh street, some gang bangers being sent to jail. You are so ignorant to assume that tagging and the injunction do not have some sort of symbiotic relationship.

      Anyone caught putting up a gang tag under the injunction will receive harsher penalties. Right now, all the city does is paint over the tag and wait for the next one to pop up.

  29. I’m not an expert, but a simple internet search showed me a major study in 2011 showed a 11.6% drop in violent crimes and a 15.9% drop in other crimes when a gang injunction is implemented. That’s a real measurable result.

    This is an unbiased scientific study. Not talking points from the ACLU, which has a clear position on the issue. Here is a ink:


    I do agree there is a danger of alienating young people and families, and the LAPD and city attorney should work with us to make sure people making an earnest effort to change their lives are rewarded and not punished. But thats exactly what Feuer/O’farrell are saying as well. I also agree on intervention and jobs and training. But that doesn’t mean you just let gangs keep walking around tagging every home and business like dogs marking territory. The gangs brought this on themselves with the increased tagging we’ve sen this year, and I’m all for the injunction as a means to stop them.

    I encourage everyone to contact your council member and let them know we the residents of Echo Park need and want this injunction to protect us and our property from gangs. And outsiders like the “Youth Justice Coalition” and the ACLU don’t et to tell us what’s best for us.

    • You know what discourages graffiti? Immediately painting over the graffiti. Anybody whose lived here over the last 20 years has learned that. You know what increases defiance and enhances notoriety? Being targeted by one of the most highly-trained and heavily-armed police forces in the world. Align anti-gang strategies around these two basic principles and you’ll not only enjoy success but avoid damaging innocent people because THAT’s what’s not captured by “scientific” and presumably “unbiased” studies. That’s documented too.

      • “You know what discourages graffiti? Immediately painting over the graffiti.”

        Hahaha. oh man, and to think I thought you were someone who’s opinions I should take seriously. Thanks for correcting me.

        At least if I get shot and I’m bleeding out on the street, I know I can discourage them by getting a blood transfusion at the hospital. clever clever. Do you ever do amateur night at the laugh factory?

      • Grab a crayon and prepare to take notes, son. Gang graffiti is about claiming boundaries and establishing notoriety. It can be a risky venture depending where and when one decides to tag but the pay-off used to be that your mark would remain on that wall for days, weeks, months, and even years, for all of your peers to oooh, aaahhh, and sneer at, which made no difference. You were on the map and that’s all that counted. Nowadays, it’s gone within 24 hours and frequently sooner. The result? The traditional incentive to tag has dramatically decreased. Who wants to risk getting shot or arrested when there is minimal chance of anybody seeing the evidence of your “locura”? That’s the entire point. What evidence can I present to prove my argument? Irrefutable and undeniable evidence. In the 70s and 80s the walls around here used to be layered with graffiti. Multi-generational in some spots. Particularly in the L.A. river. These days, you guys want to call out the national guard because of a single tag for blocks in either direction, that will most likely be gone by tomorrow morning. The killing a mosquito with a shotgun approach. Never mind the innocent bystanders who will catch some hot pellets. After all, the virus originated with us, isn’t that correct? Now, if you promise to take me serious again, perhaps I’ll deign to read you another bedtime story.

        • Echo Park resident

          Come on over to my neighborhood. The painting hasn’t deterred the taggers. They’ve moved to the sidewalk, trees and cars to stake out their “territory.”

          • Which only highlights the pathetic state of their gang’s integrity. Otherwise, and pay close attention, the deepest and most sinister gangs in the area hardly tag at all any more . . .

          • I saw a gang member trying to tag a hummingbird the other day.

      • @procopio
        “You know what discourages graffiti? Immediately painting over the graffiti.”

        You know what does more to stop gangs & graffiti?

        People raising their kids right.

        You don’t have to go out and cover up tags if people aren’t out doing it in the first place.

  30. Threaten to take away mommy and daddy’s rent control and perhaps they’ll actually start to pay attention to Junior’s activities.

    The gang injunction seems to have worked pretty well in Highland Park and the cops already know who most of the gangbangers are anyway…..they’ve given mandatory rides to most of them in the back of squad cars numerous times. And a good deal of the cops are latino, so spare me the profiling BS. I’ve never seen hipsters have a gunfight on my street or tag some barely literate gibberish on my garage.

    But we’re just gonna get a load of excuses about gangbangers. That’s the way it always is with them. Excuses. The only person that would defend a cholo is another cholo.

    And could we include tagging crews in the injunction?

  31. Maybe the Youth Justice Coalition should encourage its members to go on a hunger strike.

    • You are a very un-empathetic person, you really don’t know what aspires these people to work in an organization such as. I guess if you are not the one under the scrutiny of the man, then it is all good!

      • I’m actually a lot more empathetic than my comments might seem. I worked as a teacher in inner-city Los Angeles for 15 years, and I’m not ashamed to say that I don’t have all the answers. What I do know is that human beings often need a bit of fear to motivate them to do the right thing, and if gangs don’t fear the police, their community, or their parents, then they end up holding the rest of society hostage. A gang injunction won’t solve the issue, but it gives law enforcement another tool in their arsenal. And I’ll repeat my earlier assertion: I’m willing to bet that many families of gang members won’t mind the injunction if it calms things down and results in a “cease-fire.”

  32. SilverLaker4Life

    ‘Parks and playgrounds are empty’? Um, they look nicely full to me. None of my neighbors – lifetime Latino residents – feel threatened by the police presence. All of the cops in my neighborhood are Latino and African-American, and two of my neighbors’ sons just graduated from the Police Academy. All of us in this area are sick and tired of the gangs, and the graffiti is out of control. While I appreciate the argument that the area needs better jobs and education, the problem is here and you can’t turn a blind eye to it. Remember when the gangs owned this and nearby areas? Crap, it was awful. You wouldn’t go out after dark. A couple of months ago, I pulled my car next to a high end SUV, and a bunch of bangers jumped out and started spray painting the wall of the mini mall at Benton Way and Sunset. It was 1 pm, broad daylight. They saw me staring, and one of the bangers pulled his shirt aside to show a gun sticking out of his pants. Great. Bring the injunction on.

    • Yes, I’ve seen gang members brazenly tagging too. It is ridiculous. The gang injunction may not be perfect, but it is a start.

    • Echo Park resident

      The last taggers I saw were 12-14 year old kids. One had BRACES! I watched them tag “EXP” on my neighbors house. It was really sad.

      Yes, we need better education and better intervention — but like you said, the first step is an injunction to deter the next generation of gang bangers from joining a gang at all. It broke my heart to see these kids being roped into the “lifestyle.”


  34. Ultimately, “concerned citizens” are trying to rush something that has been unfolding on it’s own for at least the past 15 years. The area has become cleaner and safer along with the gang members. Some can’t read the synchronicity, which is fine because the point is that the gang-injunction would be punitive and disruptive of the peace that already exists and continues to grow. Young people increasingly reject the gang lifestyle without additional pressure from law enforcement. People moved to this area for its gritty appeal and now their complaining about the grit? Because THEY’ve lost friends and loved ones to gang members? If those who have are willing to continue cultivating a local culture of peace with grit and patience, who are those who haven’t to demand otherwise? At our expense? I’ve read and chuckled at the certainty expressed by many about what a gang member looks like. On any given night, a lot of innocent people could fit that description. Emphasis on innocent, which means that their manner of dress is irrelevant and their panicked reactions can NOT become another perverse lesson of “they should’ve known better than to run or raise their hands to a cop”. B.S. until you vigilantes update your profile of what a gang member looks like to exclude INNOCENT people, you won’t get credit for simply wanting a cleaner and safer neighborhood. I Repeat: B.S.

  35. Btw, stop trying to take credit for making our neighborhoods cleaner and safer. Like I said, this is a process that began at least 15 years ago. Incremental at first, but undeniable by 2005. It was a war of attrition and a desire for Peace won out over a fatigued and drug-ravaged War. The fight isn’t over but Paz just gets stronger and continues to kick-ass. You predictably underestimate the desire and contributions of the “usual suspects” to a peaceful and safer neighborhood that you now want to saturate with armed officers(?!). WTF is Wrong with you people?!?

  36. maybe they can arrest that fairy shepherd guy now for all his graffiti

    stop him and all his friends from meeting up and talking about guerilla advertising

  37. very few people including me are against the idea of aggressively curbing gangs BUT there is a real other side to letting police do whatever they want. That’s what the founders of the US knew: That its not ok to break the rules because “this situation is different” No situation is different when it comes to fundamental rights. That’s the whole point. So yes do everything you can within the constitution to stop gangs but don’t think “we have rights” and they have don’t rights even though they use our civility against us its still our greatest strength.

    … btw if anyones wondering why a youth group would be against cops enforcing a “gang” injunction should watch this http://www.upworthy.com/meet-the-17-year-old-who-blew-the-lid-off-racial-profiling-with-his-ipod

    • I have a video put up somewhere, where they wanted my I.D and were gonna mace me for no reason in front of my house, and in front of my children. They new they were being recorded, so it didn’t go down. I would always clown around after that, saying I will take a Chicano Rodney King beat down, for a cool couple million. That was until I saw what they did to Dizzy Dave!

  38. Those who think EP doesn’t need a gang injunction obviously don’t live around Baxter Street and Echo Park Avenue where three gang members have been killed and several drive-by shootings have occurred over the last five years.

    • And how many people have been killed by police officers in this same area over the same time period? Isn’t that just as important if not more important to consider? Or do we assume that each victim was “guilty” and should therefore not be counted? I think victims like David Martinez should be counted too. Perhaps then people wouldn’t be able to default to “Kill’em All! Let God Sort’em Out!” mentality, which interestingly enough, sounds a lot like a gang’s mentality . . .

      • When a police officer breaks the rules or abuses his/her power – and it does happen – there’s a process that citizens can follow in order to seek justice. It’s an imperfect process, and the legal system tends to give police more credibility than they give an average citizen, but nonetheless, there are ways to air our grievances. When a gang member kills an innocent person, can you call a meeting with a local gang leader and express your disapproval? What’s the 1-800 number? That’s the difference between the police and criminal organizations in this country; at least the police can be held accountable.

        • You sound incredibly naïve and simply ignorant of certain realities. “It’s an imperfect process”? What does that mean? That we should be grateful for a process in lieu of justice? That we should be grateful for the principle of accountability but not expect a more-credible officer to actually be held accountable? What you describe sounds like a severe compromise, which you are fully aware that you won’t have to make. Btw, when a gang member kills an innocent person, you call the police, and they will handle the situation with impunity. Even if it means convicting an innocent associate and allowing the actual murderer to go free. When you KNOW that has happened, more than twice in this community, you’re less likely to assume a Laissez-faire attitude towards abuse of power and human rights in your own neighborhood.

        • Btw, what do you sincerely believe will happen to the officers that killed David Martinez? It was wholly unjustifiable unless hair-trigger panic justifies use of lethal force. I think it deserves demotions and/or loss of their jobs if not criminal charges. however, officers have immunity from that degree of accountability. I think this puts the “usual suspects” at a severe and anxious disadvantage when the one group of people allowed to carry firearms in your community can’t be held equally accountable if they kill you after being “threatened” and “provoked” into use of lethal force. At least according to the “official” report, which we’re frequently reminded are regularly and intentionally inaccurate in situations of serious accountability.

        • When a gang member kills someone and is arrested he/she will end up in prison for a long time.

          When a police officer “breaks the rules or abuses his/her powers” they rarely get arrested.

          • Then we need to continue to address that issue, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have an injunction. Here’s a slightly off-topic analogy: Last semester, I took a seventh-grader’s phone away after repeatedly warning her to turn it off and put it away. I gave it back to her after school, but I first called her mother, who told me she would take the phone away from her daughter, who had previous issues with her phone in other classes.

            The next day, the girl told me, “Mister, I still have my phone. My mom was gonna take it from me but my dad told her I needed it. My dad has my back.” I guarantee you that gangsters will be gloating in a similar way if this gang injunction doesn’t take effect.

          • “Mister”, what you described is a spoiled-brat with indulgent parents who believe their daughter when she tells them her teacher is a jerk. Gang members aren’t spoiled brats with indulgent parents. Injunction or no injunction they could care less what happens to innocent bystanders like myself. Once again, until you vigilantes update your profile of what a gang member looks like to exclude INNOCENT people, you won’t get credit for simply wanting a cleaner and safer neighborhood. In fact, why do I suspect that you’ve already lumped that spoiled brat, gang members, and me into the same injunctionable category?

        • yhea I have to say “its an imperfect system” is the ultimate white washing and a complete lack of willingness to actually consider the abuses that would be involved in letting police use their subjectivity to stop people.

  39. Out of respect for the decessed and his family can you all stop deferring to David Martinez. His child , wife , family, friends greave his passing. The way You people throw his name around is so disrespectful. Didnt any of you get any religious training??? . Shame on you. I pray this never happens to any of you.

  40. I’m going to hold the intention that you all heal yourselves and rise above this bureaucratic madness and realize yourselves as one big happy neighborhood, integrated at last.

  41. I live just down the street from where that photo was taken, and I can tell you I am nervous driving in my neighborhood at night. And I definitely won’t take my kids for a walk after dark. There have been two shootings in the neighborhood in the last year, plus another at the recreation center last night. Something has to be done to stop this and make our homes safe for children. An injunction might not be perfect, but it’s certainly better than shootings on the street.

  42. The gang bangers have nobody to blame but themselves. As a white hipster gentrifier, we do not care when a gang member kills another gang member, we actually kind of like it when you erase each other. What we do care about is your 3rd grade handwriting that you seem to have to draw everywhere. Public property, private property, guess what, that is not yours. It makes our city look like a piece of shit. I’m sure if you gang bangers could actually draw or paint something nice, there wouldn’t be a gang injunction.

  43. I cannot believe the amount of gang sympathizers on this thread! How disgusting that you would raise little gang members to terrorize the neighborhood and then cry when the neighborhood fights back! Shame on you all! It is 2013 and gangs have no place in society!

  44. Even with crime at historic lows (relatively speaking)* anything that could help is welcome. When I walk around silver lake or los feliz vs. echo park i longingly look forward to the day when EP will have significantly less tagging, less garbage in the street & sidewalks.. an injunction here. Increased police patrol there — where’s the beat patrol officers on the street.. More responsive and frequent graffiti removal.. we need a beat patrol just for gang tagging & graffiti … gone within 24 hrs.. Echo Park is no one’s “territory”. Why gangs continue exist is a complex issue I know and there is no one solution or easy answer that will ever address it completely..

    * http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Los-Angeles-California.html

  45. How do I get a gang injunction in my neighborhood? We need one in Virgil Village too.

  46. @procopio: what happened to David Martinez was a tragedy, yes, but it was entirely justifiable given his actions. I have seen the video. Police responding to a man with a gun are pursuing David. Mistake number one: running. Then, he rounds the corner that has the mid-height wall. Before the cops round the corner, David turns and advances towards the police with his arms outstretched at chest level.. exactly as you would hold your arms if you were raising a weapon. As the police round the corner, they see this and open fire. Had he really had a gun, the officers likely would have been shot. They had zero time to try and decide if these aggressive actions by David were truly aggressive or not. David should not have run. Even after he decided to run, he should have simply fallen face down if he wanted to surrender instead of turning and advancing on the cops. A series of bad moves led to his death. I’m sorry that it happened, and that we have to refute the facts here, but hopefully others can learn from David’s mistakes and save their life in the future.

    • At no point do you acknowledge the glaring incompetence of officers responding to a call for assistance or thier trigger-happy reaction to a single INNOCENT Man trying to surrender. They “feared for their lives”? So-What. Putting their lives on the line IS their job NOT surviving at the expense of INNOCENT civilians. Where is the accountability? Instead all you can do is blame the INNOCENT victim while apologizing for mind-boggling incompetence. Not a single injunction-supporter has contributed a single response NOT based on fear, prejudice, or paranoia. Also, not a single LAPD apologist dares consider the glaring, trigger-happy incompetence that resulted in this tragedy. In fact, even gang members ask a presumed rival or threat “where they’re from?” before drawing a weapon. Otherwise, when you charge a subject, shouting, and with weapons drawn, it’s pretty obvious that killing not peacemaking is on your mind.

      • Dude. Seriously. Maybe if you gang members would quit marking your territory like some dog with your 2nd grade attempt at cursive writing, nobody would give two cents about your little boys clubs.

        • Whose “you gangmembers” you prejudiced little prick? Moreover, you think that flaunting your bigotry, prejudice, and ignorance is going to convert the sane, healthy, and confident people to your cry-baby whining? On the contrary. I find myself resisting the impusle to walk up and down the Avenue with a belt in my hand and whipping the first newbie that displays even the slightest bit of fear. Maybe that will toughen you marshmallows up and finally hip you to the fact that “you’re not in Kansas anymore”.

          • If you have the impulse to walk up and down the street with a belt, you have some serious issues you need to work out with yourself.

            It would be great to have the impulse to get out and use your super-cool-tough-guy charm to refocus the lives of misdirected youth in the neighborhood.

            Instead, I have a feeling you’ll simply continue to be a gang sympathizer/ enabler.

          • Procopio, you are obviously a gang terrorist. Really, you want to whip all the newcomers in your neighborhood with a belt? You deserve to be locked up for life if you want to treat people that way just because they want to end your violent way of life. Go to jail and stay there forever. There will be many people for you to fight in there, tough guy. Leave the citizens who are working to make this a better hood alone.

      • “even gang members ask a presumed rival or threat “where they’re from?” before drawing a weapon” – How very polite of those gangmembers to ask that before murdering someone. Are you serious?
        Even though I wasn’t there, I’m pretty sure the cops didn’t show up at the scene and just start shooting at David. When cops say “FREEZE!”, that is their warning. It’s the cops job to stop people sometimes and question them, not gangmembers. You want to talk about being trigger-happy? AT LEAST once a week I hear of a latino male shot dead while riding a bike, sitting in his car, walking down a sidewalk… pretty sure that it’s not the cops running around shooting these people. The gunshots I hear at night aren’t from drunk cops down the street firing their gun into the air.

    • don’t remember him dying as a result of being shot. i thought that dude had a heart attack while he was riding the bus a couple of weeks after the incident.

      • Pretty much. He died of a seizure like a month later. Somehow people have made him into a martyr for their argument against this injunction.

  47. Its amazing to me how many people are willing to give up someone else’s civil liberties when they don’t think its affects them. I don’t really hear anyone hear supporting gang activities at all as some have claimed. Believe it or not its possible to abhor gangs and be against subjective profiling. I do hear a lot of people hear saying that they don’t support a wholesale round up because it affects them and makes them potential victims of those in charge.
    I think it might be easier to understand if you equated it with say Egypt being able to stop any “suspicious looking” white people because they might be smuggling drugs and fit the profile. White people would be crying bloody murder.

  48. If you think that by having a gang injunction in the neighborhood all of your gang problems will go away then you are wong. It may lower some crime rates sure but every area in Los Angeles that has a gang injunction still has gangs. There is no area in Los Angeles where a gang injunction has been issued and as a result they completely eliminated the neighborhoods’ gangs.

    • If the injunction simply reduces things gang related.. that’s a bonus. The measure of success is not simply the complete eradication of gangs, though, that would be a whopping success. And, like I said before, even if all the injunction does is cause the gangmembers to dress better.. that would also be a bonus.

      • I bet you look like a bum, cholos dress nicer than you that’s fit sure! Ironed and creased for head to toe. I seen you and you kind all wrinkled from head to toe, half of you don’t even brush or floss, yet alone wash your asses.

    • Other are focused on “reducing things gang related”. Diminishing their public profile and focusing on activities other than violence is the M.O. of gangs nowadays. You guys watch too much television. Otherwise, a “successful” gang injunctiion only facilitates that gang’s ability to operate under everybody’s radar, e.g., we all know that Echo Park is rife with drug abu$er$. Who do you think is satisfying that appetite? Moreover, when the gang is “gone”, will everyone suddenly go stone-cold sober? Or will another gang simply form around the remaining demand? “Physician, heal thyself”.

  49. “Gangs will never go away” — Ok, but the law and good folks will keep trying. 18th Street in the 80s seemed invincible. Seemed.

    “Don’t like the inner city, GTFO” — nice, real nice. Sorry to try to change and improve your personal and beloved hellhole. I grew up in central LA and went to public schools and know exactly what’s happened in the center of Los Angeles. I know exactly what the brave batos/vatos are about. It’s simply and honestly about a criminal, thug life. Nothing special, noble or brave about terrorizing other people.

    Time for the crack down, and more if this one falters.

    Won’t happen? They said the Wild West would never be settled. It was. Gentrification is going to work more effectively to kill off and/or reduce gang crime than anything else. It’s economics, stupid, as the old saw goes.

    With the new condos/apts mega boxes, flippers and hipsters next door, I’ve EP change like I could never have imagined it changing in my lifetime. Will continue, too.

    • Good deal! Well, I can say that if this area really does get completely gentrified then you just might get gentrified also. I mean you do live in Echo Park, and really can’t afford to live in let us say the Palisades, right? See, the property value is fair enough around here due to the fact there is some occasional gang activity or mixes of different types. I mean Echo Park, has had gangs before most parts of Los Angeles . So, this is nothing new. Most people that have lived here over the years, either went to school with, or have had some kind of interaction with. So, what’s the big deal? I am not scared of these weird looking people that have nose rings and ugly tattoos. And I have always seen old cholos down by the old Pioneer Market. They would even congregate on the side of the House of Spirits, drinking and kicking up a little dust. Old guys from different barrios like Echo X Park, Alpine St, Temple St, Diamond St and little Westside.
      This is what this is about over this way, and if you don’t like it to bad! You guys aren’t getting rid of all of us no matter what kind of funky injunction is implemented, bottom line. So, get use to seeing me creased up looking like a so called thug, because I am not going to change my style for some skinny jean wearing fools!

  50. I haven’t read any of your comments yet (wish I had the time). I’ve been intrigued since I first heard of this injunction, and just wanted to touch on a few things, as:

    1) a homeowner in the mapped area above.
    2) a close neighbor to incessant gang/criminal/lowlife activity.
    3) Father of the year to a beautiful 3 year old boy.
    4) a Latino man, tall and tattooed.
    5) a reasonable Angeleno (not from this area), who has never even thought of joining a gang, but could easily be profiled as such.

    I would imagine that less than half of you meet even 3 of the things I listed above. I am not saying it to be pompous, but realistic. This is a subject I obviously relate to on many levels, which is the only reason I feel the need to post my two cents. We’re talking about gentrification, property values, tagging, gunshots, public safety, misconceptions, profiling, race, latinos… frankly I feel like a fucking expert on all of those things. They all have been on my mind for years now.

    Property Values: If you are surprised that property in a close to downtown, generally pretty, obnoxiously hip, great things to do, tons of history, in the center of one of the most famous cities in the world type area is going to increase in value at this point in LA’s history-in-the-making … you are just not realistic. It’s going to happen and you whining about it is useless. I am no tycoon…. I own one modest home/property.

    Gang Activity: There is new tagging on my street and surrounding streets almost daily. It seems to be legal. Have seen it done in broad daylight. I’ve been woken up by countless gunshots. I hear yelling and screaming in the streets from inside my house. Bottles breaking, couples fighting, kids crying, police sirens, helicopters & spotlights. My neighbor’s house was hit by a stray bullet. My gate has been tagged. Twice. My trashcans have been tagged. Trees have been tagged. The sidewalk, the street. Things get worse when there are cross-outs. You get know what to look for. Remember too that Echo Park is decent sized, and some areas are definitely worse than others. The southern end is awfully close to Westlake. I actually researched what exactly a gang injunction was, long before I heard of this one, in hopes that some had been in place for surrounding gangs. It is also my understanding that for many of the gangs listed, members come in and out from various places, counties etc., raise hell as they please and then go home. There’s simply no way I am going to feel sorry for these people.

    Safety: My son is 3. He’s lived in this house his entire life and shows a lot of love for it. He’s now become aware of the noises, yelling, gunshots etc. We tell him they are fireworks. He has so much fun in our yard that I’ve renovated for him. I (for obvious reasons) dot not EVER want him to feel scared in his own home or neighborhood. I felt as though we were on our way to just that once he would become more and more aware. What parent doesn’t genuinely want to feel “safe” where they live? Color and obscurity in a neighborhood is one thing (and is harmless). In 2013 we should have figured this out by now. Don’t tell me that intuitive parents aren’t allowed in Echo Park. I don’t care about your gang or neighborhood’s history if my son’s safety is threatened.

    Profiling: I’ve been through it my entire life. I physically stand out and my personality is the complete opposite. I am constantly stared at. I’ve been mistaken for a gang member before, singled out by my long hair, tattoos etc. I was a tall kid. Grew up in a predominantly white area. Good at sports. Always had unwanted attention drawn to my size, looks, and abilities. I am not complaining, just trying to show some perspective. I support the injunction despite having been profiled (probably more times than the people complaining about profiling) many times before, and despite potentially being profiled in the future.

    You may be wondering why I still live here with my son. It may sound that we are miserable. We are not (but almost were). Gentrification is happening. I see it, even in my rough south-of-the-101 neighborhood. I see hipsters moving in. Single white girls wearing leopard print. White people in general. An old jewish guy just introduced himself to me who moved in 2 doors down. Neither of my immediate neighbors are latino. The gunshots have been less. The mad-dogging has died down. There was an art show at the end of my street. Occasionally live music.

    I may be able to raise my son in a colorful, mixed, versatile area after all, seconds from my office downtown.

    The tagging remains, but I’ll take it. I wonder about you detractors. Who are you and where did you come from. The gang life seems to be glorified at times. It’s a plague to the lower class everywhere. I have zero issues with it being completely eradicated.

    Don’t mean to sound obnoxious. Peace!

    • I’ve lived here (SL, EP and just east of Vermont) my entire life. Also 40 tall professional and mixed black/white. Just like most people I have no tolerance for gangs. But here’s where we differ I’m not willing to give up mine or anyone elses civil liberties allegedly curb gang violence. it seems like it okay on the surface I mean whats the harm letting police use their personal judgments to stop people. I think that type of thinking is DEAD WRONG ,misguided and dangerous because once you open the door to violating someones civil liberties because of what YOU believe it opens the door to other people violating your civil liberties because of what THEY believe. That’s the whole premise of rule of law. You cant compromise it for short term victories. BTW I hope your son never has to go through the intimidation and possible incarceration that profiling promotes. http://www.upworthy.com/meet-the-17-year-old-who-blew-the-lid-off-racial-profiling-with-his-ipod

  51. Well, sorry but my peeps — Japanese Americans during WW II, in fact immediately on the day of December 7th — were subject to arguably the worst Constitutional violation of citizen’s rights in American history, by the largest racial profiling ever, and I don’t see a prob in cracking down on violent gangs.

    Perhaps the discussion should be ‘Where are one’s civil liberties if you are an active and participating member of a criminal gang?’

    • If you dont have a problem with this profiling why would you have a problem with the Japanese profiling? When you let the authorities use their subjectivity to detain citizens ( as opposed to actual violations) this is what happens. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad that even if the face of the evidence you submitted people can’t see that. Civil liberties and laws are the same for everyone. i.e. if you are committing a crime you can be arrested and prosecuted. If you are a felon you may not be able to congregate with other felons, vote, own a gun etc. Those are laws. What is against the constitution is stopping someone without a valid reason other than the officer feels they might be a gang member. That’s essentially what we’re talking about. It’s sad that so many people are willing to essentially give up their own rights because they think it can’t happen to them.

      • If you cannot see the difference between the unconstitutional imprisonment of over 100k innocent Americans and the pursuit of identified criminal gang members, there is a gulf we won’t bridge.

        • If you cant see the similarities between the right to detain and harass millions innocent immigrants vs the 100k that was interned I feel sad you haven’t learned anything at your ancestors expense. Your missing the whole point of the injunction it allows people to be detained on subjective “suspicion” it opens the door to the exact same thing as interment that’s why civil rights and activist groups fight these kind of things even while abhorring gang violence.

          • Read please: “…the pursuit of identified criminal gang members…”.

          • The Japanese-Americans interned during WWII were just that, Americans. The undocumented are not.

            That said, we’re not talking about immigration.

  52. Just found out there is a gang injunction in my area and sad to say it has done absolutely nothing to curve or diminish any gang related crime around here. Vandalism and shootings are at a all time high!!!

    • I am sad I moved to Virgil Village. It is infested. It is slowly creeping into Silver Lake and Echo Park too, just look at the shooting at Bellevue Park wich is technically Silver Lake. The city should look into ramping up patrols in Virgil Village. Constant taggings, gun shots, and helicopters. Lots of tarps and street people too.

  53. Sorry to hear this about my old ‘hood — we shopped at Fujiya Mkt., got and service at Endo Brothers at corner of Clinton and Virgil, and before we moved to Bev and Commonwealth we all went to Dayton Hts. Elementary. Cha Cha Cha was a Hawaiian cafe named Aloha Saimin. ‘Hood around the Nakasone’s market was safe, clean and peaceful.

    Hate the gangs and low lifes who’ve dirtied up my hometown.

  54. ‘…got gasoline and service at Endo Brothers…’.

  55. Where can we contact Mr. O’ferrel?

  56. SilverLakeNative

    We do not nee an injunction. We don’t need to give the LAPD wider discretion. Why don’t they just do their jobs and increase patrols. Maybe follow up on leads and reports of crimes—you know, real police work. This is not going to do shit except create a bunch of “unintended” consequences. I’ve lived here since I was born—31 years. The neighborhood was WAY worse back then. It’s gotten way better through the years without a gang injunction. The LMLS tags were basically GONE and just returned recently. I wonder if it has anything to do with the economic down turn. I understand how some people can have kneejerk support for the injunction, but I wonder who’s really BEHIND it and who will really benefit from it the most.

  57. I live right in the impacted area – my street in Echo Park, north of Sunset, is tagged at least 2x a week and we’ve had a major uptick in shootings on our block. The idea that crime is not on the rise is ridiculous – BUT gang injunctions only amount to racial profiling and WILL NOT solve the problems. The police have already stopped and questioned my two neighbors (both of whom are Latino, both of whom are hard-working and who support their families – this is racial profiling and the injunction will only make it worse).

    We need real policing, after school programs and JOBS!. It’s not magic, but these three things would solve the problems in EP.

  58. let’s talk about another “gang” terrorizing echo park, the hipster meth heads. i was born and raised in echo park, 54 years. i am now 55 and one year ago i moved to east l.a. why? because i got tired of the “hipster” living upstairs, on meth 24/7. and let’s not talk about the vomit and pabst blue ribbon beer bottles all over the street. i am at peace in east l.a. i can go for walks at night and not step in vomit or dog poop. best of all, no sprung out meth heads starting sh!t with me. i didn’t leave echo park because of the gang, i left because of the transplants that are bringing the heavy drug scene back into echo park.


  60. FACT 1: Civil Gang Injunctions lower crime rates.
    FACT 2: Civil Gang Injunctions have a measurable negative impact on cultural integrity.
    Do they work to lower crime? YES! Do they contribute to gentrification? YES!
    Everyone on here is RIGHT!
    We all want safe communities and we should all want to respect cultural heritage,
    However, CGIs may prove to be an ineffective long-term solution as they are meant to be combined with preventive programs, and they often are not.

    Here is recent USC study-

  61. There has never been a really bad gang problem in Echo Park, and I have been a resident on and off since the late 50s, still own a lot of property there. The really big gang problem is over the hill in Cypress Park. The Avenues have been truly evil predators for the last 30 years in Cypress park, Highland Park, Mt Washington and Garvanza areas. Those guys are just plain bugs. As in kill you a soon as look at you.

  62. Also, many of the old time Echo Park gang members, the veteranos, had gotten into customizing cars and raising families and had gotten out off real gang-banging by the middle 70s. Many of these old-timers have sold their houses for quite a profit, or rent out their houses to the incoming yipsters and bought really nice and modern two story houses on 1/4 acre in West Covina, Hermon, Glendale, South Pasadena and San Dimas. AS for white folks increasing, sure, I guess, since the middle 90s until now, but there were a lot of whites here in the 60s. There were lots of hippies here back then. My dad had an interesting conversation with Frank Zappa once in the check-out line at the old Pioneer Market, and I mean the old one, the brick one, and by interesting, I mean they started talking about farmworkers rights and ended up on which was the best soil to grow the best “yesca”. Only in Echo Park.

  63. I am all for a gang injunction and I’m not worried about any individuals like “procopio” who feel their choice in clothing will be a target of racial profiling. If you choose to dress like the majority of the gang bangers, well that’s your right. The main job of a cop is to come home alive. If there’s a burning baby in a house he should go rescue it, but if it’s determining if Joe Blow is a gang banger, I’d prefer he errs on the side of caution. This argument that you can wear what you want because it’s your Constitutional right is ridiculous. I’m as Irish looking as the day is long, how bout I get 20 of my lads walking down your street wearing steel toes and bomber jackets with shaved heads, staring menacingly at the kids and elderly. I think people in your neighborhood and certainly the cops would be concerned as that might raise a few eyebrows, no? Well, that’s why we don’t do it. If you can see beyond the “I’m a victim of racism” and “My clothes don’t mean I’m a criminal” nonsense you’d see how silly you sound. Image and perception are everything. Being Latino is not a negative trait, but looking like a thug is. Perhaps you should wear a sign saying “NOT A THUG” when you’re out and about.

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